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Featured Is God Unknowable?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    [​IMG]

    If not, what can be known about God?
    What is known about God?

    Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
    Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
    What is not possible?
     
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  2. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Be who ever you want

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    This is a very interesting question:) its one of the true top question asked in my view.
    And a question i do not have a good answer to right now...i would say its one of the mysteries of seeking God :oops:
     
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  3. The Hammer

    The Hammer Fork-Beard
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    Whatever they let us know. And that depends on the individual.
     
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  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Ok, what has any God let you know so far?
    Do Druids separate nature spirits from Gods or are they seen as the same?
     
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  5. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    It depends what you mean by "God".
     
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  6. The Hammer

    The Hammer Fork-Beard
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    I typically keep these thoughts to myself :)

    My personal cosmology has 3 classes of Spiritual beings. Gods, Ancestors, Spirits. And that is the hierarchical order as well.
     
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  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I think we can tell some things about God because of what God created, and that creation we can call "Nature", to use Spinoza's alternative name for God.
     
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  8. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    Without getting into a definitional debate about the word "God", I would say Divinity is knowable. And everything is knowable when we experience the divinity we are but don't know because of veils of ignorance. Climbing Mount Everest and standing on the summit is trivial compared to the journey involved in experiencing our true divine nature.
     
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  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    I think of it as analogous to the graph of a differential equation. You see perspectives, shadows and directions not a shape. If you see a shape it is a projection onto the three dimensions.
    [​IMG]
    This above is an example of a graph called a 'Vector field'. (hosted here: You guys seemed to like the first set, so here's another round of math gifs!)

    What you see is the most that you can see of the equation, and this is a relatively simple equation. The trouble is that some things cannot be visualized or fully understood.
     
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  10. Link

    Link Veteran Member
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    بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
    bismillahi alrrahmani alrrahimi
    In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful

    إِلٰهِي قَصُرَتِ ٱلأَلْسُنُ عَنْ بُلُوغِ ثَنَائِكَ
    ilahi qasurat al-alsunu `an bulughi thana'ika
    My God, tongues fall short of attaining praise of You

    كَما يَلِيقُ بِجَلالِكَ
    kama yaliqu bijalalika
    proper to Your majesty,

    وَعَجَزَتِ ٱلْعُقُولُ عَنْ إِدْرَاكِ كُنْهِ جَمَالِكَ
    wa `ajazat al`uqulu `an idraki kunhi jamalika
    intellects are incapable of grasping the core of Your beauty,

    وَٱنْحَسَرَتِ ٱلأَبْصَارُ دُونَ ٱلنَّظَرِ إِلَىٰ سُبُحَاتِ وَجْهِكَ
    wanhasarat al-absaru duna annazari ila subuhati wajhika
    eyes fail before gazing upon the glories of Your face,

    وَلَمْ تَجْعَلْ لِلْخَلْقِ طَرِيقاً إِلَىٰ مَعْرِفَتِكَ
    wa lam taj`al lilkhalqi tariqan ila ma`rifatika
    and You have assigned to Your creatures no way to know You

    إِلاَّ بِٱلْعَجْزِ عَنْ مَعْرِفَتِكَ
    illa bil`ajzi `an ma`rifatika
    save incapacity to know You

    إِلٰهِي فَٱجْعَلْنَا مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ تَرَسَّخَتْ أَشْجَارُ ٱلشَّوْقِ
    ilahi faj`alna min alladhina tarassakhat ashjaru ashshawqi
    My God, place us among those within the trees of yearning for You

    إِلَيْكَ فِي حَدَائِقِ صُدُورِهِمْ
    ilayka fi hada'iqi sudurihim
    taken firm root in the gardens of their hearts

    وَأَخَذَتْ لَوْعَةُ مَحَبَّتِكَ بِمَجَامِعِ قُلُوبِهِمْ
    wa akhadhat law`atu mahabbatika bimajami`i qulubihim
    and the assemblies of whose hearts seized by the ardor of Your love!

    فَهُمْ إِلَىٰ أَوْكَارِ ٱلأَفْكَارِ يَأْوُونَ
    fahum ila awkari al-afkari ya'wuna
    They seek shelter in the nests of meditation,

    وَفِي رِيَاضِ ٱلْقُرْبِ وَٱلْمُكَاشَفَةِ يَرْتَعُونَ
    wa fi riyadi alqurbi walmukashafati yarta`una
    feed upon the gardens of nearness and disclosure,

    وَمِنْ حِيَاضِ ٱلْمَحَبَّةِ بِكَأْسِ ٱلْمُلاطَفَةِ يَكْرَعُونَ
    wa min hiyadi almahabbati bika'si almulatafati yakra`una
    drink from the pools of love with the cup of gentle favor,

    وَشَرَائِعَ ٱلْمُصَافَاةِ يَرِدُونَ
    wa shara'i`a almusafati yariduna
    and enter into the watering-places of warm affection.

    قَدْ كُشِفَ ٱلْغِطَاءُ عَنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ
    qad kushifa alghita'u `an absarihim
    The covering has been lifted from their eyes,

    وَٱنْجَلَتْ ظُلْمَةُ ٱلرَّيْبِ عَنْ عَقَائِدِهِمْ وَضَمَائِرِهِمْ
    wanjalat zulmatu arraybi `an `aqa'idihim wa dama'irihim
    the darkness of disquiet has been dispelled from their beliefs and their innermost minds,

    وَٱنْتَفَتْ مُخَالَجَةُ ٱلشَّكِّ عَنْ قُلُوبِهِمْ وَسَرَائِرِهِمْ
    wantafat mukhalajatu ashshakki `an qulubihim wa sara'irihim
    the contention of doubt has been negated from their hearts and their secret thoughts,

    وَٱنْشَرَحَتْ بِتَحْقِيقِ ٱلْمَعْرِفَةِ صُدُورُهُمْ
    wansharahat bitahqiqi alma`rifati suduruhum
    their breasts have expanded through the verification of true knowledge,

    وَعَلَتْ لِسَبْقِ ٱلسَّعَادَةِ فِي ٱلزَّهَادَةِ هِمَمُهُمْ
    wa `alat lisabqi assa`adati fizzahadati himamuhum
    their aspirations have ascended through precedent good fortune in renunciation,

    وَعَذُبَ فِي مَعينِ ٱلْمُعَامَلَةِ شِرْبُهُمْ
    wa `adhuba fi ma`ini almu`amalati shirbuhum
    their drinking is sweet from the spring of devotion to good works,

    وَطَابَ فِي مَجْلِسِ ٱلأُنْسِ سِرُّهُمْ
    wa taba fi majlisi al-unsi sirruhum
    their secret thoughts are delicious in the sitting-place of intimacy,

    وَأَمِنَ فِي مَوْطِنِ ٱلْمَخَافَةِ سِرْبُهُم
    wa amina fi mawtini almakhafati sirbuhum
    their minds are secure in the place of terror,

    وَٱطْمَأَنَّتْ بِٱلرُّجُوعِ إِلَىٰ رَبِّ ٱلأَرْبَابِ أَنْفُسُهُمْ
    watma'annat birruju`i ila rabbi al-arbabi anfusuhum
    their souls are serene through the return to the Lord of lords,

    وَتَيَقَّنَتْ بِٱلْفَوْزِ وَٱلْفَلاحِ أَرْوَاحُهُمْ
    wa tayaqqanat bilfawzi walfalahi arwahuhum
    their spirits have reached certitude through triumph and prosperity,

    وَقَرَّتْ بِٱلنَّظَرِ إِلَىٰ مَحْبُوبِهِمْ أَعْيُنُهُمْ
    wa qarrat binnazari ila mahbubihim a`yunuhum
    their eyes have been gladdened through gazing upon their Beloved,

    وَٱسْتَقَرَّ بِإِدْرَاكِ ٱلسُّؤْلِ وَنَيْلِ ٱلْمَأْمُولِ قَرَارُهُمْ
    wastaqarra bi-idraki assu'li wa nayli alma'muli qararuhum
    their settling place has been settled through reaching the request and attaining the expectation,

    وَرَبِحَتْ فِي بَيْعِ ٱلدُّنْيَا بِٱلآخِرَةِ تِجَارَتُهُمْ
    wa rabihat fi bay`i addunya bil-akhirati tijaratuhum
    and their commerce has profited through the sale of this world for the next

    إِلٰهِي مَا أَلَذَّ خَوَاطِرَ ٱلإِلْهَامِ بِذِكْرِكَ عَلَىٰ ٱلْقُلُوبِ
    ilahi ma aladhdha khawatira al-ilhami bidhikrika `ala alqulubi
    My God, how agreeable for hearts are the thoughts inspiring Your remembrance,

    وَمَا أَحْلَىٰ ٱلْمَسِيرَ إِلَيْكَ بِٱلأَوْهَامِ فِي مَسَالِكِ ٱلْغُيُوبِ
    wa ma ahla almasira ilayka bil-awhami fi masaliki alghuyubi
    how sweet traveling to You through imagination upon the roads of the unseen worlds,

    وَمَا أَطْيَبَ طَعْمَ حُبِّكَ
    wa ma atyaba ta`ma hubbika
    how pleasant the taste of Your love is!

    وَمَا أَعْذَبَ شِرْبَ قُرْبِكَ
    wa ma a`dhaba shirba qurbika
    How delightful the drink of Your nearness is!

    فَأَعِذْنا مِنْ طَرْدِكَ وَإِبْعَادِكَ
    fa a`idhna min tardika wa ib`adika
    So, give us refuge from Your casting out and Your sending far,

    وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِنْ أَخَصِّ عَارِفِيكَ
    waj`alna min akhassi `arifika
    and place us among the most elect of Your knowers,

    وَأَصْلَحِ عِبَادِكَ
    wa aslahi `ibadika
    the most righteous of Your servants,

    وَأَصْدَقِ طَائِعِيكَ
    wa asdaqi ta'i`ika
    the most truthful of Your obedient,

    وَأَخْلَصِ عُبَّادِكَ
    wa akhlasi `ubbadika
    the most sincere of Your worshipers!

    يَا عَظِيمُ يَا جَلِيلُ
    ya `azimu ya jalilu
    O All-mighty, O Majestic,

    يَا كَرِيمُ يَا مُنِيلُ
    ya karimu ya munilu
    O Generous, O Endower!

    بِرَحْمَتِكَ وَمَنِّكَ
    birahmatika wa mannika
    By Your mercy and kindness,

    يَا أَرْحَمَ ٱلرَّاحِمِينَ
    ya arhama arrahimina
    O Most Merciful of the merciful!




    That's from Imam Zainal Abideen (a) (4th Successor of Mohammad (s)).
     
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  11. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    They who’ve dwelled in God and they who’ve come across God, often agree that doing so:
    • feels natural,
    • is both decentralising and depersonalising - but not in a discomforting manner,
    • is peaceful and harmonious,
    • increases one’s understanding of the relation between all that is,
    • brings sense to what once seemed senseless (makes sense of chaos),
    • changes one’s perspective, priorities and actions in life,
    • teaches one to truthfully forgive,
    • makes one trust life,
    • fills one with faith; in God and in one’s fellow beings

    God is not “knowable” in the same way that one knows a “thing” because… well, God is not a thing. God has no shape or form, no age, no gender, no positioning. And yet, one certainly has the ability to “sense” God. Though not physically, with one’s senses, because …well, God is not physical.

    I’d say that God is knowable but not definable and thus, can only be experienced and not truly be put into (limiting) words.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  12. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Is God Unknowable?
    Ask a believer, they know all about God.
     
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  13. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Be who ever you want

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    I am a believer and I do not know all about God. I have a basic understanding, but to know? No that is to bold to say.
     
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  14. `mud

    `mud Just old
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    " unknowable " that appears to be unfelt nor heard, and He hasn't written.

    Some of you "feel" your gods or `God`, that could be.

    To be "with" one's `gods`?? Are there "heavens" in Nirvana, along the Brahman pathes through life.

    maybe in death will we know.... maybe !
     
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  15. Suave

    Suave Simulated character
    It's My Birthday!

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    If we are living in a simulated universe, God might very well be known as the controller of simulations. I have a few notions of who or what might be beyond our Matrix however, there might not be any way for us simulated being to know base reality.
     
  16. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    God is very knowable. Because It's you.
     
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  17. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Ok, but I always felt a bit weird worshiping myself.o_O
     
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  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Words. They are what make us different than any animal, plant, or mineral.
    God is not unknowable. The perfect combination of communication and of silence is able to get you to God. I promise! God is peace.
     
  19. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Do you think the simulation is controlled or does God maybe create a random seed and just lets whatever happen, happen.
    Like the game off life.
    Some simulations go on a path of infinite change.
    Some die out after a time
    Some reach a stable iteration.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Suave

    Suave Simulated character
    It's My Birthday!

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    I have not simulated any universes nor did I help design life's genetic code; therefore I am not God. I am who I am.
     
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