Is God Self-Evident

[PruePhillip]

Given how many Christians are like that, I don’t see how this applies to atheists. Christians teach that we are all screwed. It doesn’t matter if Jesus promised us eternity (which has no real point), because Jesus can decide he doesn’t know us or God can kill our souls.

This doesn't make sense to me. And I hate this 'many Christians', to me a 'Christian' is someone who lives by the doctrines
and standards of the Apostolic Church. Other religious groups claimed the wealth, power and glory of the falling Roman
empire and sought to kill people who lived by these standards.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Not sure that has anything to do with God being self-evident.

No, but it has everything to do with what constitutes evidence, and the always subjective and therefore personal nature thereof.

If all human experience is subjective, and if the separation between subject and object is illusory, then the only possible objective view of reality must be something which transcends human experience. Only an infinite consciousness, existing both within and without time and space, is capable of seeing things as they are.

This does not that prove such a consciousness exists - that remains a matter of faith - but it does suggest that humanity's desire to understand the universe, is divine in nature. Poets and visionaries have always known this; For "what a piece of work is man...in apprehension how like a God."

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Getting knocked up is literally one of the first commandments given.

I'm not sure what commandment you're referring to. Adultery?
1: No other god/s.
2: No idolatry.
3: No blasphemy.
4: No ignoring the Holy day.
5: No dishonoring parents.
6: No murdering.
7: No adultery.
8: No theft.
9: No false testimony.
10: No envy/jealousy of others.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

No, but it has everything to do with what constitutes evidence, and the always subjective and therefore personal nature thereof.

If all human experience is subjective, and if the separation between subject and object is illusory, then the only possible objective view of reality must be something which transcends human experience. Only an infinite consciousness, existing both within and without time and space, is capable of seeing things as they are.

This does not that prove such a consciousness exists - that remains a matter of faith - but it does suggest that humanity's desire to understand the universe, is divine in nature. Poets and visionaries have always known this; For "what a piece of work is man...in apprehension how like a God."

You might enjoy this video regarding subjective perception of reality and the dilemma of objectivity there within:

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I just finished watching this one. In this video, PBS Space Time gives a scientific and realist look at the observer and reality dilemma, it references John Archibald Wheeler's hypothetical ideas he never completed... Another good watch:

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, but it has everything to do with what constitutes evidence, and the always subjective and therefore personal nature thereof.

If all human experience is subjective, and if the separation between subject and object is illusory, then the only possible objective view of reality must be something which transcends human experience. Only an infinite consciousness, existing both within and without time and space, is capable of seeing things as they are.

This does not that prove such a consciousness exists - that remains a matter of faith - but it does suggest that humanity's desire to understand the universe, is divine in nature. Poets and visionaries have always known this; For "what a piece of work is man...in apprehension how like a God."

Mostly just human projection - as to what exists. I'll wait until further evidence arrives.

Our desire to understand (and perhaps give meaning to) - everything - is I submit why we have advanced so much as a species. Still doesn't mean that we will get all the answers or even that we are searching properly.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Mostly just human projection - as to what exists. I'll wait until further evidence arrives.

Our desire to understand (and perhaps give meaning to) - everything - is I submit why we have advanced so much as a species. Still doesn't mean that we will get all the answers or even that we are searching properly.

Well I think it's more important that we ask the right questions, than it is that we expect definitive answers. "Why are we here?" seems to be among the most persistent of these.

In what ways, do you think, have we advanced as a species? What, collectively, have we learned that is of real and enduring value, and how have we applied that learning to the service of all mankind?

 

[Fool]

Not sure that has anything to do with God being self-evident.

so if self exists in the absolute, and self is part of the universe, then self and self's inner being are part of the universe. Only to a dualist is god otherwise, else where.

an observer of the universe can't be objective; if it's part of th

Not sure that has anything to do with God being self-evident.

you really can't be objective; if you're any part of what you're observing.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well I think it's more important that we ask the right questions, than it is that we expect definitive answers. "Why are we here?" seems to be among the most persistent of these.

Why are we here perhaps is not the best question - given that it might have led to an abundance of religious beliefs and the ensuing conflicts that have occurred. What are we to do with our lives might have been a better question.

In what ways, do you think, have we advanced as a species? What, collectively, have we learned that is of real and enduring value, and how have we applied that learning to the service of all mankind?

Why would you think we need to learn anything that is of service to mankind? That is perhaps why religions have actually developed, and the distancing from other lifeforms - because we are so self-serving. If we actually wanted to learn truths, as so many religions seem to aspire to, then they would look to such - as science does - instead of concentrating on humanity and our place in existence. Perhaps we need to be more humble.

Science has provided the greater amount of knowledge as to existence, and the last several thousand years would simply not have happened as such without science at the centre. I suggest the Bell curve is the reason as to why we have not all progressed in an equal manner, and the fact that we inherit so much from our parents and culture. But unless you would prefer to live in a previous era, I would suggest we have advanced and learnt much. Many nations being at different states of development seems to be the other major reason as to why we still have so many issues.

 

[Mock Turtle]

so if self exists in the absolute, and self is part of the universe, then self and self's inner being are part of the universe. Only to a dualist is god otherwise, else where.

an observer of the universe can't be objective; if it's part of th
you really can't be objective; if you're any part of what you're observing.

I have an issue with existence = God, that is all, since that seems a projection too far.

 

[Fool]

I have an issue with existence = God, that is all, since that seems a projection too far.

an absolute doesn't project. it envelops all.

absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why are we here perhaps is not the best question - given that it might have led to an abundance of religious beliefs and the ensuing conflicts that have occurred. What are we to do with our lives might have been a better question.

Why would you think we need to learn anything that is of service to mankind? That is perhaps why religions have actually developed, and the distancing from other lifeforms - because we are so self-serving. If we actually wanted to learn truths, as so many religions seem to aspire to, then they would look to such - as science does - instead of concentrating on humanity and our place in existence. Perhaps we need to be more humble.

Science has provided the greater amount of knowledge as to existence, and the last several thousand years would simply not have happened as such without science at the centre. I suggest the Bell curve is the reason as to why we have not all progressed in an equal manner, and the fact that we inherit so much from our parents and culture. But unless you would prefer to live in a previous era, I would suggest we have advanced and learnt much. Many nations being at different states of development seems to be the other major reason as to why we still have so many issues.

Well I can't subscribe to the point of view that all the complexity and wonder of being, is nothing but a series of inconsequential accidents, rushing aimlessly nowhere, to no great purpose. That, to me, would simply be absurd.

So I have to wonder, why are we here, where are we going, what's it all about? These questions can be approached from a scientific, philosophical, or spiritual perspective; the same spirit of human curiosity and enquiry drives them all, in their noblest manifestations.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well I can't subscribe to the point of view that all the complexity and wonder of being, is nothing but a series of inconsequential accidents, rushing aimlessly nowhere, to no great purpose. That, to me, would simply be absurd.

So I have to wonder, why are we here, where are we going, what's it all about? These questions can be approached from a scientific, philosophical, or spiritual perspective; the same spirit of human curiosity and enquiry drives them all, in their noblest manifestations.

For me it is all about what tends to aid our progression and harmony with other life, and what tends to promote division and rigidity - with much of the latter coming from religious beliefs founded in some God belief. Hence why I am not enamoured with God questions and all that tends to follow from such.

 

[Mock Turtle]

an absolute doesn't project. it envelops all.

absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

Call it what you like but it leads to the same route.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

faith is faith, if you don't have it, it's because you've not been illuminated as of yet.

This is doubtful. The same could be said by a Flat Earther to someone who accepts that the Earth is round. Doesn't mean that evidence is actually going to be forthcoming that makes a Flat Earth model match up to all available and observable evidence like the spherical model does.

i actually prefer people not believe me, i like relishing in my pearls alone.

Though aren't you here, now, actively trying to share it? Interesting that.

with my cat, too.

Are you suggesting that your cat also acknowledges and relishes these "pearls" (of wisdom?) you say you have access to? Or you share them with your cat? The cat is a believer, then? And how does the cat respond when you're sharing these things with it? How is it you know it understands or is communicating back to you about the same things? Would you consider your cat to be "illuminated?"

 

[Triumph]

if self is the image of god and one's spirit is GOD's; then isn't god self-evident?


genesis 1:27

1 corinthians 6:19-20

john 14:20


i am in the Father and the Father is in me, or I AM that i am?

Evidently it is not self evident that Paul is another false Apostle that betrayed Jesus by desiring his death. Paul expects to be paid for teaching Jesus should die as a bought for 30 pieces of silver sin sacrifice.
Apostle Peter taught Jesus is not a sin sacrifice, sins are not removed with money or the death of flesh claimed to take on corruptible sins. Believing blood sacrifice or money can remove sins is just meaningless conversation people use to say they are innocent when they are guilty.

1 Peter 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were NOT redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"
The command of the Jewish man made law was a person should die for not paying money for their sins.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Blood sacrifice paid by money is not acceptable to God and never was because the Hebrew/Jews never worshipped the God that actually created the heavens and Earth. They worship their own self invented Lord God of wrath that creates evil demanding money and human/animal sacrifices.
There is no God in a person that sacrifices a human to their God.

 

[Fool]

Evidently it is not self evident that Paul is another false Apostle that betrayed Jesus by desiring his death. Paul expects to be paid for teaching Jesus should die as a bought for 30 pieces of silver sin sacrifice.
Apostle Peter taught Jesus is not a sin sacrifice, sins are not removed with money or the death of flesh claimed to take on corruptible sins. Believing blood sacrifice or money can remove sins is just meaningless conversation people use to say they are innocent when they are guilty.

1 Peter 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were NOT redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"
The command of the Jewish man made law was a person should die for not paying money for their sins.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Blood sacrifice paid by money is not acceptable to God and never was because the Hebrew/Jews never worshipped the God that actually created the heavens and Earth. They worship their own self invented Lord God of wrath that creates evil demanding money and human/animal sacrifices.
There is no God in a person that sacrifices a human to their God.

only love redeems. sacrificing someone isn't loving. only love can save