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Is God Self-Evident

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Faith is not a pathway to the truth. It appears to be merely a comforting sort of confirmation bias.

You may have faith, I have knowledge and knowledge trumps both faith and belief.


You choose to believe that knowledge trumps faith. But some knowledge can only be gained through experience, and if you have no experience of faith, you cannot know what it is that you are dismissing, nor imagine the truths it can reveal.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You choose to believe that knowledge trumps faith. But some knowledge can only be gained through experience, and if you have no experience of faith, you cannot know what it is that you are dismissing, nor imagine the truths it can reveal.
Incorrect. That knowledge trumps belief is demonstrable. No choice involved. And do not assume that the person that you are debating against was not a person of faith. I do know what I am dismissing.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a human is a human as a human.

A father says a baby human is sperms plus ovary image. What you grow into a image is the human father as the scientist a baby man did all thesis. Sciences terms.

G O DD O image is cellular biology image function. In humans science thesis GODD O described lifes cell health holding continuance relied of God above...cooling. Pressure heavens in space kept circulating flow.

G spiral O cooled cooling DD to OO.

Theme. A teaching. Only taught by a human theist thinking.

Science theme human taught said change that space pressure O owned flow we all die as cells O won't hold.

So the scientists uses O theory says it's holy attacks mass ___________seal to destroy O pressure. Ground to heavens seal life support.

As lots of microbes like his sperm his man being are baby man adult ideas. My man self with my man brother as his penis ideals is not O a circle either.

He says to himself the scientist is life on earths destroyer by his choice I'm allowed to do my human will about God.

Why scientists weren't named godists they were Satanists.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
once you realize everything is happening for a reason and his name is Jesus Christ, you and God become self-evident.
Once you realise our only one first human father was all the life that one baby man said was a total.

He died. Naturally.

You prefer by you baby man human thesis as a want to die too. Not to be born ever again. As father lived one whole life then died.

All your thesis a baby man named Jesus died sacrificed in man's science maths proven... age man adult age about 33 years old.

Human babies grow by human sex conceived not as cloud images. Yet baby man adult man image ended in clouds. Your choice.

You hence own a human's conscious preaching I was meant to die. As you theoried it. As the human.

Life span biology is lived only as each single human.

Father didn't die age 33 years old liar theists. Human men.

Father you said lived originally about 120 years of age. As man adult.

So life age of adult men then changed to average 87.

Life span average now has changed again. For men.

You don't even listen to what subject you preach about.

A human baby is only sexually conceived.

You used a humans medical journals of reasoning about mother woman cell ovary healing to regained healthy human babies reborn DNA healed as if it was a miracle.

It was a medical teaching of why DNA had returned healed and then why the same technology had it sacrificed again.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
But what does it take to realize We are all Divine?


Words on paper are empty and devoid of meaning, like a bucket with a hole. You know what it's for, but it's useless as is.


To respond to your second sentence first, I have great reverence for the power of the written word. For after all, In the beginning was then Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Or, to quote Percy Shelley, “Language is a perpetual Orphic song/ Which rules with Daedal harmony a throng/Of thoughts and forms, which else senseless and shapeless were.”

In other words, language provides humanity with a bridge to divine consciousness, for those who know how to listen. I don’t believe, personally, that all religious scripture is divinely inspired, but it seems much of it is; sometimes an unseen hand guides the hand which holds the pen, and this has been true since man first began receiving inspiration, and committing his insights to paper.

As to your first question, there is no simple answer. It will depend on the person, their experiences, and their willingness to learn from them. We each see only a little, but first we must be willing to look. What we may call God consciousness is deep within us all, but many of us are unable or unwilling to look. Many, perhaps angry with God, are in a state of belligerent denial. And then there is the Ego, the false “I Am” which will do anything to defend it’s own hegemony over our consciousness and identity. So many are called, but few are chosen, yet the choice lies with us.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
if self is the image of god and one's spirit is GOD's; then isn't god self-evident?


genesis 1:27

1 corinthians 6:19-20

john 14:20


i am in the Father and the Father is in me, or I AM that i am?
Self-evident if one was projecting human values on to that which might not justify such. :oops: And which god is self-evident - the one from this, that, or any other belief system?
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Either God made the universe, or the universe made itself before it existed.
Some struggle with both propositions.

I see it as either Miracles or Magic.


A self created Universe is surely as miraculous as a God created one. For by what power, and with what majesty and wonder, did that which was not, become all that is?

It seems to me, though I accept it’s a matter of perspective and we each have our own, that it takes wilful blindness and extraordinary attachment to dogma, not to see the miraculous everywhere and in everything.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
once you realize everything is happening for a reason and his name is Jesus Christ, you and God become self-evident.
Yes, like Superman. Once we realise everything bad happens for a reason, and that reason is Kryptonite, then we and Superman become self evident.

Therefore, not very convincing, at least on a pure logical level. It is actually circular reasoning, the mother of all logical fallacies.

Ciao

- viole
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
If X calls Y blind, Y is equally entitled to say X is hallucinating, instead. So, the only tie breaker here is objective, independent evidence.
Which, I am afraid, is not existing.

Ciao

- viole
I can help with that. Spirituality is a subjective experience, its a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. But Atheist demand objective proof. When none is forthcoming they declare victory when in reality they have only defeated themselves.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I can help with that. Spirituality is a subjective experience, its a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. But Atheist demand objective proof. When none is forthcoming they declare victory when in reality they have only defeated themselves.

Yes, like Superman. Once we realise everything bad happens for a reason, and that reason is Kryptonite, then we and Superman become self evident.
Therefore, not very convincing, at least on a pure logical level. It is actually circular reasoning, the mother of all logical fallacies.
- viole

And the atheist convinces himself of the utter hoplessness of his own life.
The more miraculous the universe becomes, from our DNA and cellular
machinery to the intricate dance of the subatomic world - the more
pointless it appears.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
And the atheist convinces himself of the utter hoplessness of his own life.
The more miraculous the universe becomes, from our DNA and cellular
machinery to the intricate dance of the subatomic world - the more
pointless it appears.
Well, the believers, too. I suspect that God is a made up escape from it.

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I can help with that. Spirituality is a subjective experience, its a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. But Atheist demand objective proof. When none is forthcoming they declare victory when in reality they have only defeated themselves.
Yup. I am perfectly aware that the spiritual realm, whatever that is, is mainly subjective. No argument with that.

So, when you say it is obvious that it blinds, you mean it is obvious only to the ones who had that subjective experience. Like my friends in Iceland, who subjectively experience the presence of fairies and trolls around them. Therefore, fairies and trolls are also obvious that they blind. Correct?

Ciao

- viole
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And the atheist convinces himself of the utter hoplessness of his own life.
The more miraculous the universe becomes, from our DNA and cellular
machinery to the intricate dance of the subatomic world - the more
pointless it appears.
If one wants a point for one's life one needs to make it themselves. How would the existence of a God change whether life has a point or not?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
if self is the image of god and one's spirit is GOD's; then isn't god self-evident?


genesis 1:27

1 corinthians 6:19-20

john 14:20


i am in the Father and the Father is in me, or I AM that i am?

The concept of self; inner self, is connected to consciousness, with consciousness not easily defined by science. We all have the gist of what consciousness means, since we all own one, and we can see consciousness in other critters.

However, science cannot yet simulate consciousness in the lab; conscious computers, to provide full proof of this concept, that is consistent with the Philosophy of Science. The self is not as evident as one might think. It is more something that we can see and can analyze, introspectively, through meditation and through self observation. Bit not everyone is so inclined.

The image of God is often misunderstood. The image of God is often assumed to be the general superficial aspect of humans, that we can seen in the mirror. This makes the image of God assumed to be something that looks humanoid to the eyes; old human man with a white beard.

But since the quote also talks about the self; inner self and therefore consciousness, the image of God appears to be better describe by the computer term "disk image". The disk image is the code on a computer storage disk, that includes the operating system, software and some other code features such as that which makes the disk self launching or bootable.

Our conscious is self bootable when need arise; arousal to awareness. It can be also transferred to others through language and speaking. The young child learns to be like the older children; disk image transfer.

If science could some day write the code needed to allow consciousness to arise in the matrix of computer code, a disk image of this code and its dynamic data base, would be transferable as another self conscious bootable computer AI.

Humans have two centers of consciousness; inner self and ego. The inner self is much older and is connected to our DNA. The inner self uses a characteristic operating system of the brain, common to all humans, which defines us as a species; human nature.

The ego is much newer, and evolved with the rise of civilization. It has will power and choice apart from the inner self and DNA. In some ways, the ego's consciousness is based on a disk image of the inner self. Its access to the brain hardware is more limited that that of the inner self, therefore it is not as universal in terms of output; unique ego.

The classic traditions of dreams and visions being a part of religions with this output thought to be connected to the gods, is an example of the ego being self aware of the inner self and learning wisdom from the main frame aspects of the brain and its operating system, where the original disk image of God dwells. God is spirit or is more like information based; code, than just hardware such as neurons. It is actually firmware; coded within matter itself.
 
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