Is God real?

[Neo Deist]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

Two questions:

1. Do you believe in free will?
2. Which translation of the Bible do you prefer?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you know, I really wish you would read my "God in Your Head" post again. What I am saying has nothing (really!) to do with God -- only what holding the idea of a "God" you can understand and must obey, can do to ordinary human beings.

If you really understood my post, it would frighten you, too.

Any idea we have of God is only our imaginations.

The only God that is true and real is the God the Prophets and Messengers speak about. That God is real.

 

[Thief]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

are you hoping to be the correction....for a lack of faith?

 

[Sententiae]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

Of all the religious tomes over all the years it is the bible you focus on. That is a bit curious. It is an assembled text. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John essentially tell the exact same tale but differ in the amount of supernatural nonsense they weave into their stories.

The bible... KJV? (It's the one I'm most familiar with)

 

[buddhist]

Hi Buddhist, thanks! I feel welcomed.

And you are right: suffering is certainly a reality in this life. Each of us knows this from personal experience on various levels. I approach this topic with caution because I know it sits very close to the heart for many who have dealt with extreme emotional or physical suffering.

How do you view suffering? What is the nature of suffering? Why is there suffering in the world? How ought we to deal with it? Can we deal with it?

People seek gods, saviors, prophets, heroes, leaders, money, sex, food, sleep, drugs, etc. - is because of suffering - in its various guises.

Who knows why there is suffering, or its nature, or of its origins? Suffice it to say, it should simply be dealt with. The best and most straightforward and effective way I know as to how it can be dramatically reduced (with promises of complete elimination!) is the Lord Buddha's Eightfold Path.

 

[loverofhumanity]

All the religions are true. They all teach the truth. All the paths lead to the same destination - freedom from the prison of self.

 

[swapnil]

If the true God is the monotheistic one described by the Bible, why does polytheism predate monotheism?

well one of the biggest reason for polytheism to predates because initial scriptures were corrupted by communities for their own gain. If you do some research Hindu religion which is the oldest religion has scriptures stating that there is only one God.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm only saying that there is a much higher intelligence in the universe than man.

I can see that’s what you’re saying, but tell me – how do you know? What has that “higher intelligence” done that you can lay claim to? How has it communicated its “higher intelligence” to you?

Are you saying we are the highest form of intelligence that exists in the universe?

Where have I made such a claim? Not here, for sure. There are lots of intelligences around that I know of: whales and dolphins, pigs, rats – even the occasional human. I don’t know whether any of them is, in fact, a higher or lower intelligence, because I don’t know for certain what that would entail. Maybe dolphins and whales are more intelligent than we are, because they don’t make things that they then have to acquire. Human greed for unnecessary stuff probably hasn’t served us quite as well as we like to suppose.

I also have no idea whether there are intelligences (higher, lower, or possibly not understandable by me) in the universe. No idea. But I do know this: what we see around us is not better explained by being designed by some other, unknowable intelligence which exists without the need for design itself, than by simply being. I cannot reasonably claim that, first nothing can exist without being created and, second, something exists without being created to create that other stuff that couldn’t be. This is a circularly foolish notion.

If you answer yes then how do you know?

I just answered that: I don’t know.

If you answer no then if there is a higher intelligence then it's possible we were designed by it. No? Proof please.

Look what you’re doing now: you are saying “if” and “it’s possible” then asking ME for proof? It’s possible the universe was farted out by the Great Space Pumpkin, but I doubt it. It’s possible some guy with a white beard and brass toes did it. (Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. Rev 1:12-15)

See, you don’t know, couldn’t offer the tiniest proof of what you claim, and yet you ask me to prove when I say that I don’t know.

The only thing that I can say to the notion of the necessity of an-created creator is that it makes less sense to me than the natural view explained by the science we so far understand.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I can see that’s what you’re saying, but tell me – how do you know? What has that “higher intelligence” done that you can lay claim to? How has it communicated its “higher intelligence” to you?



Where have I made such a claim? Not here, for sure. There are lots of intelligences around that I know of: whales and dolphins, pigs, rats – even the occasional human. I don’t know whether any of them is, in fact, a higher or lower intelligence, because I don’t know for certain what that would entail. Maybe dolphins and whales are more intelligent than we are, because they don’t make things that they then have to acquire. Human greed for unnecessary stuff probably hasn’t served us quite as well as we like to suppose.

I also have no idea whether there are intelligences (higher, lower, or possibly not understandable by me) in the universe. No idea. But I do know this: what we see around us is not better explained by being designed by some other, unknowable intelligence which exists without the need for design itself, than by simply being. I cannot reasonably claim that, first nothing can exist without being created and, second, something exists without being created to create that other stuff that couldn’t be. This is a circularly foolish notion.



I just answered that: I don’t know.



Look what you’re doing now: you are saying “if” and “it’s possible” then asking ME for proof? It’s possible the universe was farted out by the Great Space Pumpkin, but I doubt it. It’s possible some guy with a white beard and brass toes did it. (Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. Rev 1:12-15)

See, you don’t know, couldn’t offer the tiniest proof of what you claim, and yet you ask me to prove when I say that I don’t know.

The only thing that I can say to the notion of the necessity of an-created creator is that it makes less sense to me than the natural view explained by the science we so far understand.

To me God is as real as the sun in the sky and I'm absolutely certain God exists. But you're entitled to your views.

 

[Milton Platt]

The only flaw is that the universe has intelligence in it and that it didn't create itself.

Intelligence cannot come from the unintelligent. Man, who is an intelligent Being could not have come about by accident or a random act of nature because there are too many things like the eyes which require intricate designing in order to perfect and random acts do not have that ability.

All we are saying is that there is a much higher intelligent Being than man in the universe. If we exist and are intelligent beings, why then isn't it possible there is a supremely intelligent Being?

It's illogical to say there can't be as we ourselves are proof of intelligence in the universe. All I'm saying is that we're not the only intelligence.

The world does not run on possibilities, it runs on probabilities. There is nothing we have discovered so far about the universe we live in that does not have a natural explanation. Thus, there is no reason to insert the supernatural into the spaces where we do not yet have the knowledge.

 

[Milton Platt]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

Tell us exactly what you believe and why you believe it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The world does not run on possibilities, it runs on probabilities. There is nothing we have discovered so far about the universe we live in that does not have a natural explanation. Thus, there is no reason to insert the supernatural into the spaces where we do not yet have the knowledge.

Then that's your decision. I discovered the opposite to you that absolutely beyond any doubt God exists. So all we can do is agree to differ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

In my opinion, god of the bible, quran, and torah is not real. I dont know about other religions outside of abraham to say whats true and whats not in my opinion only. I can say I notice from christians god is a personification of life. How christians experience god and talk about him, if I replaced the word god with life it would still make sense.

Since god is life then we are not separate fom god. How we define him is from ourselves, our minds, and and self fulfilling experiences. Its interpreting sycronicity as blessings and coinsedences as gods had in answering ones prayer. Its all in the mind and thats okay.

I really dont have questions because after realizing this, I can put any persons god concept in my "equation" and it would still make sense. Just you all have culture, traditions, etc ways of defining it to your relationship with life (aka gratitude for life) personally. Some of us dont depend on these things to see god. Others do.

Welcome though.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The only flaw is that the universe has intelligence in it and that it didn't create itself.

Intelligence cannot come from the unintelligent. Man, who is an intelligent Being could not have come about by accident or a random act of nature because there are too many things like the eyes which require intricate designing in order to perfect and random acts do not have that ability.

You only say this because you can't fathom it. However, I am sure you accept the fact that chemical reactions - elements within compounds seeking greater stability in new relationships with other elements/compounds - happen "by themselves" all the time - no God/human/muskrat input required. Granted, as we define "intelligence" there is none to be found in a chemical reaction. And yet that chemical reaction is still enacted - work is still done, and those elements still somehow "desire" those more stable configurations.

Why is it such a leap to figure that there are even more complex reactions possible, that produce even more complex results, all happening because the constituent parts are mutually seeking better, more stable configurations of matter according to their basic nature?

Humanity used to view the stuff of chemical reactions as "magic" - and there were times that people exploited this fact to claim that they had some power given to them by God or gods, or that the amazing reaction was proof of God. We have dispelled that notion through continued observation and cataloging of the world and universe around us - unlike you, I am not so ready to set the torch aside and say we should seek no further because "God".

 

[Quintessence]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you.

Why should someone ask you in particular? Members who are seekers can create threads in the Seekers Circle to get input from a wide variety of people. What would they get out of talking to you in particular? What do you get out of that dialogue? Why do you offer?

 

[Reggie Miller]

All the religions are true. They all teach the truth. All the paths lead to the same destination - freedom from the prison of self.

By saying that you are really saying that none of them are true. You do realize that, right? I mean, none of them teach only to escape the "freedom from the prison of self."

Why do you think "self" is a "prison"?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

To me God is as real as the sun in the sky and I'm absolutely certain God exists. But you're entitled to your views.

Yet, you can see the sun in the sky, feel its warmth, get your skin burned by its rays. We can learn a very great deal about the sun using many methods of observation. The sun is real for me, too.

But you yourself said, in Post 22, “Any idea we have of God is only our imaginations.” So, in fact, you know absolutely nothing about God, and knowing nothing, God can have no more impact on you than your own imagination, requires nothing more of you than your own imagination does. And in very real truth, according to your own stated views, the only reality you are asserting is your own imagination.


And I will grant you that your imagination is a real thing. It just isn’t God.

 

[LukeH]

Mr. Platt,

I believe a great many things. Like you, and every other human being, I have an entire worldview which is shaped by my knowledge of God, the world, and personal experience. I will attempt to give you a general overview of what I believe concerning the basic branches of philosophy and you may seize on whichever aspect you like and we can further discuss that topic.

As you read the following, please bear in mind the nature of rationality and presuppositions: in order to reason at all, one must hold presuppositions. Because no person can know everything (no matter how many PHDs she/he may have) one must hold certain presuppositions in order to reason at all (for a fuller - and superior - explanation of this idea, see Van Til's works). I certainly do not claim to have all the answers but here is a rough sketch of how I view the world:

Metaphysics (nature of reality):

· The Trinitarian God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is the source of all truth and is ultimate reality. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, immutable, personal, loving, merciful, just, and good. He always has been and always will be. Everything that exists, other than God himself, is ontologically dependent on him. Truth, therefore, is not a construct of the mind or relative, but is an external reality which is unchangeable.

· When God created the world he made it good. The created world originally had no sin, suffering, or death. The first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve, were created in the image of God for the purpose of glorifying him by enjoying him.

· When God created Adam and Eve, he had a “works based” relationship with them. This means that their perfect life in the garden and the intimate and unbroken relationship they had with God was contingent on their obedience to him. God placed two trees in the garden: “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”, and “the tree of life.” God forbade Adam from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

· Yet Adam and Eve chose to believe the lie of the serpent – namely, that they could become like God if they ate from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”

· The result of Adam and Eve’s sin was the entrance of sin into creation and the loss of perfect relationship with God. Because God is perfect and cannot abide (or live with) sin, he expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden.

· Yet God had a plan to send a Savior into the world to redeem humanity and pay the price of their disobedience with the blood of his own Son, Jesus Christ. All of the Old Testament scriptures tell the story of redemption through types and shadows (hence the sacrificial systems, Israel’s’ typological theocratic monarchy, the prophets, etc.) heralding the coming of Christ.

Epistemology (how one can know reality):

· I believe truth to be knowable in part – because God is Truth, the world he created is governed by laws (the laws of science, reason, logic, etc.) which make the pursuit of truth possible – if it weren’t for the laws of nature, scientific discovery would be futile; if it weren’t for the laws of reason and logic, or dialogue here would be futile. If there were no such thing as truth (or if it were entirely unknowable) there would be no grounds for rational discourse on any level.

· The senses – the senses alone are not sufficient in coming to a knowledge of the Truth, but they play a significant role. Through means of the senses, one can observe the physical world and gather data.

· The Mind – Obviously, mere acquisition of data does little to aid one in coming to an accurate understanding of the world. It is through logical reasoning (mental processes) that one must interpret empirical findings. Through formation and syntheses of hypotheses, theories, and scientific “laws,” one can slowly come to a more accurate understanding of the physical world.

· Special Revelation – Yet truth is not limited to the physical world alone: there are also Spiritual realities. Of course, these realities are not physical in nature and thus are not able to be observed by means of the senses alone. Again, one must ask: “How can one know that there are spiritual realities?” Because of their sinful hearts, humans do not want to submit to God or even admit that He exists. But at the same time our conscience bears witness to God’s existence. In other words, everyone has a knowledge of God, yet they obscure this truth that is written on their consciences. The main reason people do not believe in the true God is volitional, not intellectual. This is where the Scriptures and the work of the Holy Spirit come in. Not only has God chosen to reveal himself generally through nature, but also through his inspired Word (the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments) and through the work of his Holy Spirit in opening spiritually blind eyes. The Word and the Spirit work together to reveal to men and women their need for Him, His grace and sufficiency, His beauty, His immense worth, and the work of Christ on the Cross. It is by placing our faith in the person of Jesus Christ that we can come to know God personally. Honestly, there is no way I or anyone else can “make” you believe this. Yet I know this God personally and talk with Him every day. He is my hope. He is my joy. He loves me with the perfect love that my heart has always yearned for. Life in a sinful, fallen world is extremely painful. No-one can escape the wounds of broken relationships, the death of loved ones, or physical suffering. Yet Christ offers the hope of a perfectly restored relationship with God eternal life with Him – a life which will be devoid of all tears, suffering & pain.

 

[viole]

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible or are unsure about what you believe concerning religion, please feel free to let me know any questions you have and I would love to dialogue with you. All conversation will be conducted in a polite, respectful manner.

Why do I guess, with a high level of reliability, the religion of someone's parents and community, when I know hers?

Am I a psychic?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God is beyond our comprehension so we only know God by His attributes such as love, justice, forgiveness etc. no one knows the essence of God.

And where do you see these attributes? I have seen people loving (and hating), being just and unjust, forgiving and bearing grudges – but I’ve only ever seen people doing those things. I see no love or justice or forgiveness in the earthquake, the hurricane, the poisonous insects and animals that kills thousands including children every year. We know about the droughts that leave people to starve to death, but I don’t see much love or justice in those, either.

So in the Bible it says God is a spirit and God is love but we don't know anymore than that.

Question of the year: if God is spirit and God is love – what on earth need did He have a material universe filled with misery and death? He wants “good souls” for company? Well, could he not have made those directly, and avoided all the suffering – not to mention a universe some several sizes to large for us!

God makes Himself known to us through His Chosen Ones such as Christ but what is made known to us is only His attributes.

This would be a very, very foolish way for a god to make himself known. It leaves the field completely open to charlatans who pretend they’re one of the chosen ones – and as we can see directly with our own eyes, many of those charlatans have committed horrors upon the world. I would have though God would be smarter than that.

We know nothing else about God except what His Manifestations have conveyed to us. Also we know God by His Signs.

Yes, I mentioned some of those above: earthquakes, hurricanes, poisonous animals and disease. Some “love.”

Everything in existence has Signs of order and intelligence and so there must be an Organiser and Being Who designed it that way.

Now, this is a very silly statement. Order happens naturally all by itself in millions of different ways. Dust clouds coalesce into galaxies, stars and planets under no more direction than the force of gravity. Go to the beach one day, and notice how the sand, sediment and other materials are sorted according to size and weight. This happens for no more reason than waves, and waves are caused by wind, and wind is caused by the differential temperatures arising from sun and shade. No organiser required.

A painting cannot create itself but must have a painter, so this universe must have had a creator.

I know, you keep saying things like that. You just conveniently stop one step short. The painting needs a painter. But the painter needs a source, too!