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Is God Omniscient as people say?

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
did you know that i would respond to your thread? no. you just guessed it.

you don't know how you will interact with others. you just guess.

Well you just answered your own question.

God does not know, untill we act first, then God knows.
So God would not know beforehand what we will do, until we Act first.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Just out of curiosity, for those who deny omniscience, if God didn't create spacetime, and like us, He just has to wait until stuff unfolds in order to see what's going to happen--what's really left of "God" to worship? If there's anything left there at all, it seems it would be something like another passive observer like us, although with maybe a broader scope of observation.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Thank you, I though you don’t have such scripture, but good to be sure. "I regret" is not same as saying “I have made a mistake”.
Of course it isn't, but, as I explained, having made a mistake is inherent in personal regret.

And actually, it is possible to regret things that are good, or at least not bad. For example, freedom is good, even though many people use it for evil. Still, it would be good to give freedom.
So where does the personal regret come into play?


.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Is God Omniscient as people are being taught in the churches that God is Omniscient, When there is no where in the Bible that makes this claim?

Let's take the book of 1st John 3:20--"For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things"

At first reading this, a person can be lead to believe, that God is omniscient of knowing all things.

But is this actually what it's saying?

In 1st John chapter 3, is speaking about the heart, God knows all things of the heart, Whether it is good or bad intentions.

God searches the heart to see whether it has good intentions or bad intentions.

Then when a person acts upon the intention of their heart, then it becomes evidence that their intention of their heart was either good or bad intentions.

Does this mean, that God knew beforehand what their intention was, No.

What it means, is that God does not know, only until it's revealed in a person heart, What their true intentions are.

Then when a person acts upon their intention of their heart, Then it has come to its fullest discloser of their intention of their heart is.

But until it comes into a person heart, there's no way of knowing whether their intentions are good or bad. It all starts in the heart first.
Only God can know what's in the heart, whether there will be found good intentions or bad intentions.

It's like a person who goes thru life thinking no bad thoughts, Until one day, bad thoughts start to enter their heart.
Now it's starting in their heart.

Now that person has the choice, to either cast it off or follow it thru.to it's fullest discloser on the outside.

So does God know beforehand, what a person is going to do ?

No, only until it's found in their heart, Then God knows their intention of their heart, Whether it's good or bad.

If a person walks around hateing, Then it's in their heart to hate, So God searches the intention of their heart is to hate.
So everything starts in the heart first, Then when the hate has over taken their heart, Then the hate starts to show its fullest discloser on the outside, This is when things really start to happen.

So is God Omniscient, As in knowing all things beforehand, No, not until, good or bad intentions are found in the heart. Then God see into the heart, to know what exactly are the intentions of the heart. Whether they are bad or good intentions.
Let's take the book of Ezekiel 28:15, for a good example.
"You was perfect in your ways from the day that you was created, till iniquity was found in you"

As you can see, God did not know that Lucifer had any iniquity in him, Till Iniquity was found in him, his heart.
So how is God Omniscient ?
As people say?

I think the whole concept of a god, omniscient or otherwise is questionable, but if one were to go by Bible quotes, then there are these:

“Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

“Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?” (Job 37:16).

“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).

“He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit” (Psalm 147:4-5).
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, for those who deny omniscience, if God didn't create spacetime, and like us, He just has to wait until stuff unfolds in order to see what's going to happen--what's really left of "God" to worship? If there's anything left there at all, it seems it would be something like another passive observer like us, although with maybe a broader scope of observation.


For one thing, there is no where throughout in the Christian bible where the word
( Omniscient ) is found.
It's just a man made false teaching.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
For one thing, there is no where throughout in the Christian bible where the word
( Omniscient ) is found.
It's just a man made false teaching.

Yeah, well, you can't find "potato salad" in the Bible either, but it appears at every church pot luck dinner anyway.

And for me, omniscient is not a "teaching" at all'; it is an axiom--it is how I choose to define God.

In total, I define God as a being that...

1) Exists.
2) Is omnipotent.
3) Is omniscient.
4) Is omnipresent.
5) Is omnibenevolent.

Any other "superbeing" which might exist would be cool, but would not be "God" to me. If there is no such a being as I have defined, then God does not exist for me. I'm ok with that.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I think the whole concept of a god, omniscient or otherwise is questionable, but if one were to go by Bible quotes, then there are these:

“Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

“Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?” (Job 37:16).

“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).

“He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit” (Psalm 147:4-5).


There is nothing there, as saying that God as being all knowing. Only that God has understanding of things.

There is no where throughout the whole bible the word ( omniscient ) is found.

The word ( omniscient ) is just a man made false teaching of man's.

Do you know that of Isaiah 46:9-10--"I make known the end from the beginning,from ancient times"

When was the beginning, from ancient times?

"Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight, Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account" Hebrews 4:13.

Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight, for God searches the hearts of man, that everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him whom we must give account of our hearts to God.

"I the Lord search the heart, I try the minds, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the reward of his doings" Jeremiah 17:10.

Therefore the Lord searches the heart.to give every man according to the reward of his doings.

"And, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be"
Revelation 22:12
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yeah, well, you can't find "potato salad" in the Bible either, but it appears at every church pot luck dinner anyway.

And for me, omniscient is not a "teaching" at all'; it is an axiom--it is how I choose to define God.

In total, I define God as a being that...

1) Exists.
2) Is omnipotent.
3) Is omniscient.
4) Is omnipresent.
5) Is omnibenevolent.

Any other "superbeing" which might exist would be cool, but would not be "God" to me. If there is no such a being as I have defined, then God does not exist for me. I'm ok with that.

It doesn't matter how you choose, what does matter is what God says and matter, and not what man will say.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
It doesn't matter how you choose, what does matter is what God says and matter, and not what man will say.

Correct. That follows logically from an omniscient God--that's why I believe in predestination rather than free will--there's nothing we can choose anyway; only that which God has created us to choose.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Correct. That follows logically from an omniscient God--that's why I believe in predestination rather than free will--there's nothing we can choose anyway; only that which God has created us to choose.

Your idea of Predestination,That God would have people like robots walking thru life and not having any choices into which way they want to go.
Just walk thru their life and then just fall over a cliff.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
I believe you're confusing feeling sorry with regretting. If he knows he did the right thing and would do it over again, as you say, then it wouldn't be a regrettable action.

.

My understanding was that regretting means feeling sorry. Is punishing your child not regrettable?
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
That's such a superficial understanding of spacetime. It's not about "predicting" the future, as if it were in doubt, it's about KNOWING the future, and KNOWING precludes ANYTHING else from happening.

Time is like a movie, and we are just characters in it. We can only see the story develop in one direction, but the movie is already made. Someone outside the movie, like the Director (let's call him "God") can run the film forwards and backwards and see what happens at any individual moment (and what's more, the Director is responsible for everything that happens at every individual moment). And every time the film is viewed forward or backward, the same things happen at exactly the same times. Even if it is a movie about a guy finding out about something that will happen later on in the movie (and even if it is a movie about a movie about such a fellow), every frame of the movie still looks exactly the same, no matter the order in which they are viewed.

This is exactly the point of view I was addressing.
There is a logical conundrum when someone knows the future.

To be clear, the 'Director' plays the movie forwards and backwards and knows everything that will happen, but if that is actually true, then the 'Director' can alter the the movie and watch it again, then alter the movie again, then watch it again, etc. and there is no necessary limit to this.
But you appear to be suggesting that either the 'Director' is not in control of the movie even though he knows what will happen or does not care to change it. And that's fine. I'm just pointing out the logical problem of knowing future states so that you are aware of what it means when you say the 'Director' knows the movie.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Your idea of Predestination,That God would have people like robots walking thru life and not having any choices into which way they want to go.
Just walk thru their life and then just fall over a cliff.

It's not MY idea; the Bible spends pages and pages describing it--I'm just helping you understand it. I listed a couple pages worth of the Biblical explanations a few posts ago, if you'd like to review.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
This is exactly the point of view I was addressing.
There is a logical conundrum when someone knows the future.

To be clear, the 'Director' plays the movie forwards and backwards and knows everything that will happen, but if that is actually true, then the 'Director' can alter the the movie and watch it again, then alter the movie again, then watch it again, etc. and there is no necessary limit to this.

But you appear to be suggesting that either the 'Director' is not in control of the movie even though he knows what will happen or does not care to change it. And that's fine. I'm just pointing out the logical problem of knowing future states so that you are aware of what it means when you say the 'Director' knows the movie.

The problem that you are encountering, though, is that you keep insisting that there is a logical conundrum if someone were to know the future, and there is not.

First of all, no one EVER knows the future, so we can't say for sure WHAT would happen if someone did--but there is certainly no logical reason why they could not. And there is certainly no logical reason to conclude that they could do anything other than that which they know is going to happen, even if they did. It's almost like you're confusing the actors with the Director.

You apparently misread the post you quoted, though, because here you say that I'm suggesting the Director is not in control of the movie, when I plainly said, "and what's more, the Director is responsible for everything that happens at every individual moment."
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
My understanding was that regretting means feeling sorry.
Feeling sorry can certainly be a consequences of something you regret doing, but only because what you did was a mistake. If what you did was not a mistake why feel sorry for it?

Is punishing your child not regrettable?
Not if the results you were expecting from the punishment come true, OR if you knew this was the best way to eventually get these results.

.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
It's not MY idea; the Bible spends pages and pages describing it--I'm just helping you understand it. I listed a couple pages worth of the Biblical explanations a few posts ago, if you'd like to review.

The bible does not support omniscient, there is no where in the Bible that the word
( Omniscient ) is even found or sopken of

How can you help with something thats not even found or spoken of in the Bible.

All you have is what you say and others will say and that's all. There's no proof in the Bible as God being omniscient or being all knowing.
All your doing and others is visualizing something that's not there.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
But none of this proves that God is Omniscient.
For say, God does not know what you will do, before you do anything.

Hmm, well, it is isn't clear that God doesn't know what you will do before you do it. If God is intimately familiar with the hearts of people, then it stands to reason that he is aware of what people intend to do before they do it.

I wonder if the problem isn't more about figuring out what it means to 'know'. Are there things which fall into a category of 'unknowable'? I think that we have to address that question before we can even understand what it means to be omniscient.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Your idea of Predestination,That God would have people like robots walking thru life and not having any choices into which way they want to go.
Just walk thru their life and then just fall over a cliff.

It's not MY idea; the Bible spends pages and pages describing it--I'm just helping you understand it. I listed a couple pages worth of the Biblical explanations a few posts ago, if you'd like to review.

The bible does not support omniscient, there is no where in the Bible that the word
( Omniscient ) is even found or sopken of

How can you help with something thats not even found or spoken of in the Bible.

All you have is what you say and others will say and that's all. There's no proof in the Bible as God being omniscient or being all knowing.
All your doing and others is visualizing something that's not there.

Can you see your error here, or do I need to point it out in front of everyone?

HINT: You started out talking about predestination, and when I responded about predestination, your rebuttal was to say that omniscience is not found in the Bible.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hmm, well, it is isn't clear that God doesn't know what you will do before you do it. If God is intimately familiar with the hearts of people, then it stands to reason that he is aware of what people intend to do before they do it.

I wonder if the problem isn't more about figuring out what it means to 'know'. Are there things which fall into a category of 'unknowable'? I think that we have to address that question before we can even understand what it means to be omniscient.

Nope just the opposite, God does not look at things as we do.

We humans only can see what is happening to a person from the outside.

But where did the motive have it's start, the motive to do good or bad started in a person heart.
Once it's fully conceived in a person heart, then it comes to be seen on the outside.

We humans will say, because a person has a bad thought in their heart, doesn't mean a thing, But with God they already acted on it.
Look at those who killed many kids in the schools, The thought first started in their heart, then it became a reality.

But with God search the heart and saw the bad intention, already committed that bad intention in their heart. Before it even became a reality.
So with God searching the heart, they are already found guilty.
But with humans, a person is not guilty until they do it. Then it's to late, because they already have killed innocent people.

What we can't see in the heart of man,
God can see in the heart whether it's good or bad intentions.

But with humans will say, you can not find a person guilty until they commit it.

But with God that person already committed it, in their heart. So they are found guilty.
Did God know beforehand, No God didn't know, till it was found in their heart. Then God knew.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Can you see your error here, or do I need to point it out in front of everyone?

HINT: You started out talking about predestination, and when I responded about predestination, your rebuttal was to say that omniscience is not found in the Bible.


What is your definition of Predestination mean to you ?
 
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