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Is God constantly trying to convince us of His Existence?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by tomspug, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. tomspug

    tomspug Absorbant

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    If God exists, and if God is a loving God, wouldn't he be trying to be in a relationship with us 24/7? It's not like he would get tired or lose patience. He's infinite, right?

    So if this is the case, than if someone DOESN'T see evidence of that effort, there are only two options:

    1) A loving God does not exist, hence the lack of evidence.

    2) We are blind to God's efforts, whether by our own will or some other cause.

    What do you think? Aren't these the only two options?
     
  2. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    3) God exists, but doesn't try to convince us of his existence, because we are just supposed to take it on faith.

    By the way, where'd you get the idea for this thread? ;)
     
  3. tomspug

    tomspug Absorbant

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    ;-)

    But wouldn't a LOVING God want to be in a relationship with us no matter what? I guess the question I'm asking is whether a 'clockmaker' God can really be considered loving if there is no relationship between Himself and his creation. It wouldn't be 'love' so much as 'appreciation'.
     
  4. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    To add my own twist on the question....

    We are aspects of God, who loves Godself. God need not form a relationship with us, because it aleady exists. So, option

    4) Our search for God is the product of our innate awareness of the pre-existing relationship.
     
  5. Anti-World

    Anti-World New Member

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    5.) The God is Schizoid. Loves, but doesn't care about relationships in the least.
     
  6. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Not if the Watchmaker God considers us His children. Perhaps it's a matter of wanting genuine love. He waits for us to approach Him rather than frightening us into lip service.
     
  7. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Well-Known Member

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    Unless he is deliberately hiding, we would know undoubtedly about his existence.
     
  8. Wandered Off

    Wandered Off Sporadic Driveby Member Staff Member

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    Religion:
    Generally a bad idea
    Maybe we're not the main attraction. Maybe there are other creatures really in God's image, with whom God is trying 24/7 for a relationship. Your question seems to assume it would be all about us.
     
  9. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    How do you know I'm a liar because I believe something? I know it's off topic, but I don't understand your reasoning.

    And Tom, I think that's the point of anyone who doesn't believe in Christianity. Why would a loving God not try to have a relationship with us? And to add to that, why would he then create barriers that block that relationship, i.e. sin/Satan, etc.?
     
  10. tomspug

    tomspug Absorbant

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    Why is that, Father Heaven? Isn't the second option a possibility? For example, if you close your eyes there is just as much proof that the sky exists as there is proof of God.
     
  11. tomspug

    tomspug Absorbant

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    An excellent question. I wasn't trying to imply that one choice was right over the other. I was merely making the observation that I believe you have to choose one or the other.

    And option 1 doesn't say "God does not exist", merely that a "loving, external God does not exist".
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    The sky isn't trying to convince us of its existence, though.

    Shout loud enough and anyone can hear you, even if they've covered their ears.
     
  13. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    OK, but I think it's been shown that there are other options.
     
  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    I'd add "omnipotent" to that list of adjectives. There's no inherent contradiction in us not believing in God if the God in question is a loving God who dearly wants us to know Him, but doesn't have the power to convince us.
     
  15. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    O SON OF SPIRIT! I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting.

    Baha`u'llah, Arabic Hidden Words

    sin/Satan, etc. are barriers WE erect, God made us capable of putting those barriers in the way so that by our own efforts we could come to Him. That ability goes both ways, we can erect barrier after barrier put up veil after veil or we can follow our own inner light back to God.

    Man says that what we love most we should set free content that it will return or not.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  16. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    It's not necessary. God could be omnipotent and choose not to convince us.
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    Sure. I was just trying to express the idea that non-omnipotent beings sometimes (often?) don't accomplish what they try to do.
     
  18. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Oh, ok. I just misunderstood you. :sorry1: :)
     
  19. GadFly

    GadFly New Member

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    Yes, I agree. The atheist finds "no" evidence for a god so his faith is that there is no god. If this condition was true all devout truth seekers would also be atheist. The fact is that the evidence for a God is hidden deep in the mind of atheist and the God seekers equally. The God seeker calls this prior knowledge, knowledge with which a person and all creatures are born. If there is prior knowledge, which may even be called instinctive knowledge, it points to an absolute being which I as a Christian calls God.

    I find traces of God everywhere. It has been argued in this forum many times by the atheist that there are no traces of God. In politics the atheist rejects absolute knowledge and rejects self evident truths listed in the Constitution. Self evident ideas come from an Absolute Being; therefore the atheist and Liberal politician rejects the Aristotelean concept that truth does not change in favor of the argument of atheist that there is no Absolute and that what is called truth changes all the time.

    Liberal politicians, who are Christians or religious people,are shocked that that they use atheistic logic in their politics, especially when Christians strongly believe they are what and how they think.

    The prior knowledge of God or the lack of the knowledge of God, is the most basic premise in all types of systems of logic. The logical person must choose one system or the other. The strength of ones faith is measured by how strongly one follows his most basic premises. Extreme examples of this is the comparison between atheistic Communism and God fearing Americans. Of course not all Communist believe there is no God but are duped into following Communistic logic in politics. They remain a Communist but not a good Communist by Communist standards and in some Communist countries many are punished for being religious.

    Liberal and Progressive politicians who push for socialism follow the Communist type of logic, although they also want to be God fearing people also. But, this is my opinion only but I think based on fact, this argument helps explain the conflict in American politics.

    The extreme examples are the right wing Republicans (of which I may be one) and the extreme left wing Democrats who want to take their country back. These are two extremes and I don't think either group would like me for saying this. The same comparison can be made in other areas of living such as business, medicine, social clubs, and especially here on this forum.

    God bless:angel2:
     
  20. Michel07

    Michel07 New Member

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    A lot existed before human beings so I think God is much more than just the personal God but it is the personal God aspect of Him that allows us to have a relationship. That is manifested through signs in ones life, sometimes dramatic i.e. for those who have had profound religious or mystical experience and they are around but I don't think he is on it 24/7 in the context of proving his existence. God is more than that. And I also believe in " seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened." Jesus. So to some degree he will be in our lives to the degree that we invite Him.
     
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