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Featured Is Genesis True?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Windwalker, Nov 16, 2018.

?
  1. Absolutely yes! These were actual historical events that really happened! Why would the Bible lie?

    8 vote(s)
    17.0%
  2. Absolutely not! It's made up. Why should anyone believe it if it can't be validated by science?

    8 vote(s)
    17.0%
  3. Yes, it's symbolically true. This is the nature of mythology. It expresses our human condition well.

    15 vote(s)
    31.9%
  4. Not really. Though I get that it's symbolic, it doesn't really speak truth about our condition.

    8 vote(s)
    17.0%
  5. Partly yes, partly no. Some of it resonates symbolically, but not so much as far as myths go.

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
  6. Other, please explain.

    6 vote(s)
    12.8%
  1. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Nothing there to disagree with, and nothing
    there that actually addresses what I said.
    If you'd try again, I'd like to hear what you have
    to say on topic.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Ya, probably about 6 million years ago somewhere in eastern Africa.

    Probably around 13.7 billion years later.

    I said they were likely "reworked", so they are not "the same".

    BTW, all such stories are "myths", including the Creation and Flood narratives, which is not a word that means nor implies falsehood in theological studies. They're narratives whose primary purpose is to teach folkways and mores from a given perspective.
     
  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    It's interesting that the educated who have been mentioned repeatedly tend not to be very educated on what the Bible says yet their input is so well respected.
     
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    "Myths" [see my previous post for definition] cannot be judged on the basis of "truth" because objectivity is not its purpose. "Citizen Kane" was produced for entertainment, not myths nor objective history.
     
  5. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    I'm enjoying the discussions of symbolism on this thread, but a lot of the rest of this thread reads to me like "Matthew 22:1-14 is such nonsense and falsehood, no such king existed!!" :p
     
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  6. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    It addresses this idea. Unless you don't mean it was originally passed off as true.
     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Right, but then all of a sudden only 6,000 years ago there's any evidence of writing, language, etc. I mean written history and bills of sale and census and things like that, rather than just pottery shards, some teeth and maybe pictographic assumed to be billyuns and millyuns of years old.

    Right.

    Yeah, like a parable, illustration, etc. But, certainly you weren't implying that the "myth" in question was true, correct? Isn't that what you meant by myth?
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well, as neither of us ACTUALLY knows original intent
    I guess I will say they may have known they were
    writing down nonsense to confuse people for generations,
    or, they may not have. :D
     
  9. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    Put "Jesus said" in front of it, and everyone knows it's just a parable.

    Put "Confucius said" in front of it, and again, everyone knows it's a story meant to illustrate a teaching.

    Put "Moses said" in front of it, everyone goes "Wow, isn't he crazy for literally believing that happened??"

    :p :p :D :D

    Jews are the only people we treat as if they didn't understand what metaphors are.
     
  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    eeeewwwwhhhh
     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Well, Jesus was a Jew and Confucius taught mostly history and events he witnessed while being run out of town after town. History, propriety and social conformity was Chungni's, uh, bag, or thing or whatever you want to call it.
     
  12. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    You go girl!
     
  13. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    Of course it is true of the human condition of the people living at the time the mythology was written. Because it was written by those humans living with those thoughts and conditions. It didn't fall out of space onto a page in a book that millions relate to and follow. It's like all other myths and stories that have survived through the ages. It's a story about humans and their conditions, dreams, hopes, fears.
     
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    There were pictographs much prior to that time, and there's a bone altered by some Neanderthal that appears to follow the phases of the moon. It's not like writing just emerged out of nowhere.

    Not historically true, so correct.
     
  15. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Any wise educated person knows the limits of their education and welcomes the input of others who have knowledge they dont.

    Come on in, the water is fine.
     
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  16. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    We can safely say that the ancient cultures didn't view oral traditions through a modern lens of fact/fiction.

    As such, it would have only been 'nonsense' if it had no value in their present, which was the purpose of oral tradition. The purpose discussing the the past was to explain the present, not some intellectual exercise in presenting objective truth.
     
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  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I dont think I am ready to say that the ancients made
    no distinction between fact and fiction.
     
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  18. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    It's a matter of understanding knowledge in an oral community. The classic work on this is Walter J Ong's Orality and Literacy

    https://www.amazon.com/Orality-Literacy-30th-Anniversary-Accents/dp/0415538386
     
  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Nevertheless, in spite of your personal opinion, Origen is widely regarded with great respect, as one of the early Fathers of Church. So my point stands.

    By the way, his comments about Jesus are pretty standard. The Nicene Creed says "Et ex Patre natum, ante omnia saecula".
     
  20. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    If I remember my Ong, in oral cultures practical knowledge was valued over non-practical knowledge. Regarding the latter one avoids committing to anything. Tales of the beginning of the Universe might be interesting but nothing to debate about if nothing practical could result from it.
     
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