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Featured Is Fascism worse than other forms of Abrahamic Monotheism?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by PopeADope, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    How can you say it is any more shameful to be adhering to Fascism than to adhere to Abrahamic Monotheism?

    The founder of Fascism [​IMG] declared Fascism to be a Religion.

    It is essentially a very patriotic version of Christianity. There is an old saying that when Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag with a cross. That statement is actually not far off, as Fascism took place in the heart of Christendom, was cherished by Christians (and originally by many Jews as well) established what we know today as the independent Vatican city state, kept prayer in schools, and was the greatest defender of Abrahamic monotheism for it’s time against the rising attacks of secularists (atheists/communists).

    Jews were also welcomed as members of the original Fascist party and there was nothing antisemetic about it. Hitler did not found or start Fascism. He perverted and corrupted it. There is no anti-semetism in the Doctrine of Fascism. Most Christians who despise Fascism, have no clue what Fascism is, and many I've talked to in real life do not even know who founded it, or read a single verse of it's very Christian "Doctrine".

    It is arguably the Christian Bible where Hitler got most of his fuel for Anti-semitism, as he convinced Fascists that Jews killed Christ and were the enemies of the early Christians. He blamed Jews for all the persecution of Christianity that was killing tens of millions at that time, and declared Joseph Stalin to be “Their little darling”. This was all over the media. This corrupted many Fascists, including eventually Mussolini, which I find to be very sad, but he was a sinful human as we all are, prone to error and deception. But he was no Hitler by any stretch, he originally despised Hitler, and certainly never intended Fascism to go that direction.

    I have had people at RF and in real life say such things as “shame on you for being Fascist”. I lost my recent AA sponsor about two weeks over fascism, both of which I’m cool with, I have thick skin and understand why they would say or do that. It makes sense, due to the lack of understanding, but it still seems like they turn the other way when it comes to other Religions and institutions.

    For instance, if you think Fascism is shameful, how is it any more shameful than being Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Christians, Muslims, and Jews have had their wars of aggression, intolerant governments, bigoted oppression of minorities, scandal, slavery, and sin. The Bible is filled with it. So, is the Qur’an, which has less, but is a smaller book with graphic tortures, crucifixions, and amputations in store for enemies of their prophet.

    Despite the actions of Fascists, I find the Doctrine of Fascism to be much more peaceful than the Bible and the Koran, and the Religion of Fascism as I know it, to be one of tolerance, patience, and charity towards others, and being stern with oneself, while having Fascist zeal, patriotism, fervor, spirituality, and determination, but not using any other weapon but prayer and spiritual warfare.

    It is interior Fascism I'm fond of, not exterior fascism, meaning it is to discipline oneself and not anyone else. It is a war against personal sins, and the sins of others are to be not judged or condemned.
    I share Fascism and the inspiration drawn from Il Duce with others, which is a form of exterior Fascism, but I'm very skeptic of ever having a Fascist government again, unless the leader was benevolent, anointed, compassionate, charitable, and knew what was overall best for the nation.

    The Doctrine of Fascism also condemns selfishness and individualism, and so, the interior fascist makes war with their own human nature that is naturally selfish and individualistic, seeking more what benefits and builds up the nation.

    I call Fascist government to be exterior fascism and Fascist Religion to be interior Fascism. The latter is the one I adhere to and helps me more than any other spiritual practice or Religion. I learn courage from the founder who accomplished the impossible, with a rise to power that I find more courageous, intriguing, and providential than any other figure, and he had many god-like qualities that most people could only dream of having. His Doctrine of Fascism is deeply spiritual and in places resembles a Catechism or even Scripture, like it has Divine inspiration.

    He was no worse than Israeli Kings in Scripture or “Men after God’s own heart” like King David who commited adultery and had his right hand man killed for it. Or Joshua, whom God ordered to wipe out men, women, innocent children, babies, and animals.

    Was Mussolini worse than the God of Abraham, who hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and then slaughtered the first born of Egypt for it, destroyed countless lives with plagues, famine, hunger, the great flood that wiped out far more than 99.9% of humanity and animals, as well as the destruction of women, children, babies, and cities with fire and brimstone from Heaven?

    The Doctrine of Fascism is far more peaceful, loving, and gentle in comparison.

    God commanded the Israelites to conquer other nations and even commit genocide and destruction of other cultures repeatedly. The story of God’s chosen people and nation, is full of such calls to violence and intolerance of other cultures, beliefs, and (sadly) even other ethnicities, for God had one separate group that he favored with his covenant, his word, and special blessings.


    The land promised to Israel had already belonged to others settling there. The promised land was conquered through bloodshed, violence, the destruction of Kingdoms, and the help of God. God also severely punished Jews in Scripture, willing they endure the horrors of slavery for roughly 400 years, as well as Civil war, invasions, and all sorts of chastisements from him. In fact, God was going to destroy all of Israel, but the prayers of Moses “got God to repent”.

    So, if you are a lover of the Abrahamic God, or admire "men after God’s own heart" like King David, or approve of God favoring his chosen ethnicity and culture, how can you find much fault in a figure like Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, who was far less guilty of such actions?



    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  2. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    :rolleyes:
     
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  3. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    It is the exact opposite of Christianity. Christianity is about liberated the oppressed and proclaiming freedom to the captives, Christianity is good news to the poor and hungry and downtrodden. Fascism is a boot stomping a human face forever.
     
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  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Fascism is not inherently religious, nor Abrahamic.

    It just happens to very often be enabled by Abrahamic beliefs.

    And sure, it is very much worse than the alternatives, by either a political or religious perspective.
     
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  5. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Far less guilty? The myths in the Bible are just myths and never really happened. The evil things Mussolini did were very real. He murdered people like you, he put them in cages and starved them to death.
     
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  6. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    After the Duce rose to power, people that disliked Socialists and communists began harming or killing socialists and Communists. Many of these crimes would be like me harming someone who hates Donald Trump, and then attributing it to Donald Trump.

    It was very unique because it was a Democracy that instantly replaced one leader with another without elections. The police liked Mussolini so much they approved of his black-shirt militia illegally seizing newspaper facilities, even before his rise to power. It was against the law and the police were supposed to arrest them. They didn’t because they sympathized with the militia.


    His becoming prime minister stirred up passionate young thugs to believe they were above the law. The nation stood in awe as one man dismantled Democracy and replaced it with a form of government invented by him. The streets filled with thugs who took advantage of this and beat up the people they knew who opposed it. Meaning, many of the atrocities committed against Mussolini’s opponents, were not the work of Mussolini, and were done by volunteers and often people who simply recruited themselves to take out their leader’s opponents.



    I don't believe everything said about the Duce, because those victorious are the ones who rewrite history. There are quotes that the Duce bragged about raping a virgin and bragged about being a racist and atheist. The book about him I believe the most is the one written by the person who knew him better than these other writers. I believe the book written by his wife Rachel Mussolini, long after his violent humiliating death, who knew him better, and acknowledges his bad qualities, while letting the world know there is another side to him. He had his angels and he had his demons. So do we all.

    Also, you don’t know that Scripture is false. To be honest with you, I hope much of it is, but those are recognized by countless Historians as Historical documents.
     
  7. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Here's an idea... accept that there's a reason Mussolini is considered a monster, and find someone actually well regarded to emulate. Then go outside and do something constructive. Saying "I want to be like Mussolini" isn't healthy.
     
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  8. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    No it is not due to their lack of understand , it is due to your lack of understanding and good taste that this man was a monster. Quit blaming other people for your foibles. Of course people aren't going to like you if you keep trying to push on them that Mussolini was a good guy when he wasn't. Not all people are gullible and they are going to see through your bull****
     
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  9. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thing is that God didn’t want people to have king, but people demanded that. If we would go as it was originally, we would not have any governments. Unfortunately, people are not really fundamentalists.

    But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. Samuel prayed to Yahweh. … …Now therefore listen to their voice: however you shall protest solemnly to them, and shall show them the manner of the king who shall reign over them… …He will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. He will take your men-servants, and your maid-servants, and your best young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your flocks: and you shall be his servants. You shall cry out in that day because of your king whom you shall have chosen you; and Yahweh will not answer you in that day.
    1 Sam. 8:6,9,15-18

    If people would really be fundamentalists, they would reject all earthly governments, and I think it would be good. World would be more peaceful. All wars are because people give power to governments.

    Also, I think you have wrong idea about fascism. I think good lesson about what fascism is the wave experiment
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICng-KRxXJ8the

    That explains well fascism, which can use many ideologies. Common thing is how it rules by fear and peer pressure. After watching that, you can notice for example that the “liberals” or culture Marxists are really fascistic. Unfortunately that fascistic mentality can infiltrate also good groups.
     
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  10. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I see no difference. :D

    Functionally, both people who espouse to the ideology involved are suffering from a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. But, secondly, Hitler wasn't a fascist on paper -- he was a socialist and liberal. It's only the later generations that agreed that Hitler was a fascist to distance themselves from him while still incorporating his ideas. (They basically took the "extreme elements" out of his brand of socialism and liberalism, and created modern day globalism/liberalism -- which is to say, they want everything of his ideas but the whole gassing and murdering people part.)

    Italy during WW2 was fascist in the proper sense, but ultimately most political ideologies get that donkey tail pinned on them if they lose a war or fall out of favor by historical revisionists.
     
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  11. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    Whatever your opinions may be, just take care of yourself dude and don't get involved with anything that's going to pose a danger to yourself or others. That's all anyone can ask for and it's what all the hatred, fear and anger you get from other people really boils down to when people can be calm and rational enough to say it.

    Stay safe.
     
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  12. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    gg.jpg [​IMG]

    I know the anti-fascists love to quote that, but it has a lot of truth to it.


    Fascism was extremely unprecedentedly patriotic (Wrapped in the flag) and the most zealous promoter and defender of Christianity (carrying the cross).

    Fascism is a force influencing America and the world, and America used to be quite Fascist in many ways. Mussolini made swearing in public and on television a crime. America used to have censorship laws where the media was censored to the point where you were not allowed to swear on TV. Abortion was also illegal. Mussolini banned porn and closed down nightclubs and places that violated Christian morality. Although America was not Fascist by definition, those are policies that are very fascist in the sense that it is what Fascism enforces, and strict censorship of the media.

    Leaders of so many countries, especially during the rise of communism, had their enemies imprisoned, assassinated, or executed. There were multiple attempts on Mussolini’s life, he accomplished the impossible, he believed he knew what was best for Italy, and in so many ways he improved Italy, improved the economy, created jobs, motivated the youth, won the approval of the Pope, created the Independent Vatican State, and so much more that convinced him and others that he was the best leader. In order to keep this positive momentum going, he felt the need to silence his enemies, who were killing Fascists as well as made multiple assassination attempts on his life. So, out of love for his country, he did what he thought would be best for his country.


    I agree that we should be humble and harm no one. Il Duce failed at that, but sometimes leaders have to kill large amounts of people for the better. Take Abraham Lincoln for example. He had to have hundreds of thousands of Americans killed to end slavery and crush a Rebellion. America dropped the atomic bomb twice on civilians, the greatest act of terrorism in history.

    America has committed far more wars of aggression, and has a far greater kill count than Fascist Italy, yet Fascists are painted as the bad guys, and we painted as the saviors of Democracy and freedom. It's unjust!
     
    #12 PopeADope, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Oy vey. Sinclair Lewis wasn't saying that fascism is going to be Christian and patriotic. He was saying it is going to be a wolf in sheep's clothing and somehow you missed the point.
     
  14. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Thanks!
     
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  15. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Why don't you just tell him the truth. He talks about this stuff to people in real life. You know where this can lead.
     
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  16. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Thank you!

    I get that. He and I don't disagree. I already said that I am very skeptic of any fascist government, because of how corrupt human nature is. The Fascism I adhere to is interior Fascism, and benefiting from the example and writings of Il Duce, while learning from his mistakes, and harming no one.
     
  17. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Matt, you need to find some better tools for your recovery because the one you adopted is a dead end
     
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  18. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Il Duce has inspired me more than any other author to pray, sacrifice, suffer for good causes, go to Church, pray the Rosary, fast, rise earlier, be humble, eat healthier, stay off drugs, be a gift to others, don't be selfish, be patriotic, march with purpose, invoke God and helpful spirits, be courageous, and be a fascist with myself, fighting the vices of pride, lust, anger, covetousness, envy, laziness, gluttony, individualism, and hedonism, all of which are condemned in the Doctrine of Fascism or the laws in fascist Italy!

    I learn from his mistakes and can see that he was hung upside down and desecrated to atone for his sins, his pride, and his fall. I'm not defending immoral or tyrannical behavior unless there are perhaps forms of that which are overall better for society (the people).
     
  19. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    The name Mussolini means Jacob, who was the "Contender with God". Jacob was a liar, thief, deceiver, and manipulator who stole his brothers birthright and stole his epic blessing through deception. He was the one who "Fought with God and won" (giving him the name Israel). I can't help but see your Religion is "God killer", so similar to a "Contender with God" who "Fights with God and wins".

    Please describe your Religious beliefs or lack of Religious beliefs if you don't mind. I see Jacob as the Patron Saint of "God Killers", but that's just my opinion :p
     
  20. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Matt I told you a hundred times that etymologically that the name Mussolini derives from the Italian word mussola meaning cheesecloth. Mussolini means maker of cheesecloth
     
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