Is Evolution really all there is????

[Bird123]

As we look around us we see there is a process of unfolding going on. People are created from a few cells to grow into a person. Animals go through this same process. Plants and trees unfold from tiny seeds into massive complex structures.



If you were God with limitless intelligence, how would you create it all? Choice 1. With a Poof, it's all here. Choice 2 With an automated, unfolding, expanding universe that grows into complex structures, systems, and life forms all coming from a single point.



Which choice is more intelligent? Poof leaves one wonder of the how and why while choice 2 has life forms in the expansion able to watch and study the processes.



Evolution fits well into choice 2 unfolding. Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution. Is that really true?



I'm sure in the early days, survival of the fittest played an important role in the development of people and animals. This leads to the question: Is evolution really all there is? After all with mankind's humanity, the fittest are not the only ones surviving today. All those couch potatoes are making it too. There must be other factors involved.

What do you think????

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know who says that everything is evolution, but it sure isn't the biologists. You may want to take care not to mix the biological concept with mystical uses of the same word.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

As we look around us we see there is a process of unfolding going on. People are created from a few cells to grow into a person. Animals go through this same process. Plants and trees unfold from tiny seeds into massive complex structures.



If you were God with limitless intelligence, how would you create it all? Choice 1. With a Poof, it's all here. Choice 2 With an automated, unfolding, expanding universe that grows into complex structures, systems, and life forms all coming from a single point.



Which choice is more intelligent? Poof leaves one wonder of the how and why while choice 2 has life forms in the expansion able to watch and study the processes.



Evolution fits well into choice 2 unfolding. Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution. Is that really true?



I'm sure in the early days, survival of the fittest played an important role in the development of people and animals. This leads to the question: Is evolution really all there is? After all with mankind's humanity, the fittest are not the only ones surviving today. All those couch potatoes are making it too. There must be other factors involved.

What do you think????

I think you're being very limited in your ideas about how the universe and us humans could have come into existence, even if created by deity. You are also assuming that a creative deity would have to be intelligent in some conceptual way that makes sense to us, which I don't think has to be the case.

I think you also aren't understanding what biologists mean by evolution, versus, say, what physicists mean by evolution.

 

[George-ananda]

What do you think????

I believe in God, evolution, evolutionary-creationism, nature spirits, etc..

Not sure what you were trying to ask with the OP. The big question is 'did abiogenesis and evolution occur only through those physical forces now accepted by science?'. I think there is greater intelligence involved.

 

[McBell]

As we look around us we see there is a process of unfolding going on.

We do?
How so?

People are created from a few cells to grow into a person. Animals go through this same process. Plants and trees unfold from tiny seeds into massive complex structures.

I suspect there was a reason for these three sentences beyond stating the obvious?

If you were God with limitless intelligence, how would you create it all? Choice 1. With a Poof, it's all here. Choice 2 With an automated, unfolding, expanding universe that grows into complex structures, systems, and life forms all coming from a single point.

You assume the god intended to "create"...

Which choice is more intelligent?

Relevance?
What objective empirical evidence do you have that there was any intelligence involved?

Poof leaves one wonder of the how and why while choice 2 has life forms in the expansion able to watch and study the processes.

this does not make sense as worded.
Could you reword it?

Evolution fits well into choice 2 unfolding. Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution. Is that really true?

i do not understand the claims being made here.
Could you further expand on said claims?

I'm sure in the early days, survival of the fittest played an important role in the development of people and animals. This leads to the question: Is evolution really all there is? After all with mankind's humanity, the fittest are not the only ones surviving today. All those couch potatoes are making it too. There must be other factors involved.

What do you think????

I think perhaps in your attempt to make your OP shorter you left out some key components?

 

[rusra02]

I think that science has allowed us to peer into the amazing processes involved in life. And the deeper science peers, the less likely it becomes that such amazing design simply sprang undirected into being, and undirected, produced the staggering and awe inspiring life forms that fill the earth. As Michael Behe opined about recent discoveries of the human cell, what is being discovered “is a loud, clear, piercing cry of ‘design!’” So life was not "poofed" into existence, IMO, nor is there any convincing evidence that life evolved. Rather, the evidence clearly proves to me a grand Creator, with unimaginable power and unfathomable intelligence, designed and constructed life in all it's forms.

 

[ronandcarol]

Is Evolution really all there is???? Here is a more logical choice for you.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then God said, "Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals. Everything God created reproduces its same kind from its own seed.

​

ronandcarol

 

[Bird123]

I think that science has allowed us to peer into the amazing processes involved in life. And the deeper science peers, the less likely it becomes that such amazing design simply sprang undirected into being, and undirected, produced the staggering and awe inspiring life forms that fill the earth. As Michael Behe opined about recent discoveries of the human cell, what is being discovered “is a loud, clear, piercing cry of ‘design!’” So life was not "poofed" into existence, IMO, nor is there any convincing evidence that life evolved. Rather, the evidence clearly proves to me a grand Creator, with unimaginable power and unfathomable intelligence, designed and constructed life in all it's forms.

Science does have evidence of evolution. You are right. There is too much evidence all around us for random chance to create it all. I say we do not allow our egos or religion to cloud our view on the possibilities of creation. I believe the truth can be discovered for it exists all around us.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As we look around us we see there is a process of unfolding going on. People are created from a few cells to grow into a person. Animals go through this same process. Plants and trees unfold from tiny seeds into massive complex structures.

Yes. Unfolding from our perspective, our time bound perspective. Physics experiments show that time is something we perceive but which is not what we perceive it to be. Fromancient times people have pondered the nature of time and questioned whether it is continuous or not. Looks like its both.

If you were God with limitless intelligence, how would you create it all? Choice 1. With a Poof, it's all here. Choice 2 With an automated, unfolding, expanding universe that grows into complex structures, systems, and life forms all coming from a single point.

If I were God with limitless intelligence it would not matter which way I went with it. An automated universe or an instantaneous universe would both require a lot less than the intelligence that I would have.

Which choice is more intelligent? Poof leaves one wonder of the how and why while choice 2 has life forms in the expansion able to watch and study the processes.

You said I would have limitless intelligence, so I think poof would be about the same to me.

Evolution fits well into choice 2 unfolding. Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution. Is that really true?

Those people are perhaps mistaken. Evolution is evolution, and the universe is the universe. There is not necessarily a common process between them. Evolution is something observed on Earth and nowhere else yet. The universe is vast and much older than evolution.

I'm sure in the early days, survival of the fittest played an important role in the development of people and animals. This leads to the question: Is evolution really all there is? After all with mankind's humanity, the fittest are not the only ones surviving today. All those couch potatoes are making it too. There must be other factors involved.

Time is a factor. The couch potatoes are the ones who aren't adapting well to modern times, but some of them might make it.

What do you think????

I think evolution is a small, small piece of the puzzle. The hugeness of everything makes it impossible to be sure if evolution has only happened once or is happening everywhere. Maybe we are just very lucky.

 

[Bird123]

Is Evolution really all there is???? Here is a more logical choice for you.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then God said, "Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals. Everything God created reproduces its same kind from its own seed.

​

ronandcarol

Hey, I'm not some shepherd you can awe. I have to have more details on that process. Poof creation serves no purpose.

 

[Valjean]

If you were God with limitless intelligence, how would you create it all? Choice 1. With a Poof, it's all here. Choice 2 With an automated, unfolding, expanding universe that grows into complex structures, systems, and life forms all coming from a single point.
Which choice is more intelligent? Poof leaves one wonder of the how and why while choice 2 has life forms in the expansion able to watch and study the processes.

Neither choice is really a 'how', and how I'd do something would depend on a lot of factors. What am I trying to accomplish? Why? As for intelligent -- add a hundred more factors.
People generally prefer the simplest, quickest method. That would be #1. Wouldn't a slower, messier, more complex method be downright stupid?

Evolution fits well into choice 2 unfolding. Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution. Is that really true?

Evolution isn't a mechanism. It's just change. The mechanisms constitute the Theory.
Change over time does happen, but I don't see why a magical personage has to be included in the process.

Some say everything is evolution and that the universe is nothing but evolution.

I'm not even sure what this means. Can you clarify?

I'm sure in the early days, survival of the fittest played an important role in the development of people and animals. This leads to the question: Is evolution really all there is? After all with mankind's humanity, the fittest are not the only ones surviving today. All those couch potatoes are making it too. There must be other factors involved.

What do you think????

You're misapplying evolution. There are social and economic factors involved in the schlub's surviving, but the brains and fingers that fashioned the society the schlub lives in were a product of evolution just like any other physical feature.
I don't think you understand evolution or what constitutes "fittest."

 

[Bird123]

We do?
How so?


I suspect there was a reason for these three sentences beyond stating the obvious?


You assume the god intended to "create"...


Relevance?
What objective empirical evidence do you have that there was any intelligence involved?


this does not make sense as worded.
Could you reword it?


i do not understand the claims being made here.
Could you further expand on said claims?


I think perhaps in your attempt to make your OP shorter you left out some key components?

Just can't make you Happy about anything here, can I? I'm sorry to shine any ray of light of possibilities into your eyes.

Let me make it easier for you. If you were God, how would you create the universe?

Now you might have to get out of that box of beliefs to do it. You can pretend if that helps. Let yourself go!! Free your mind. The rest will follow!

 

[Valjean]

If I were God, what would my options be?

The universe is. It happened. The mechanisms are currently being worked out by physicists.
So far, no intentionality or God seems necessary.

 

[Bird123]

Yes. Unfolding from our perspective, our time bound perspective. Physics experiments show that time is something we perceive but which is not what we perceive it to be. Fromancient times people have pondered the nature of time and questioned whether it is continuous or not. Looks like its both.

If I were God with limitless intelligence it would not matter which way I went with it. An automated universe or an instantaneous universe would both require a lot less than the intelligence that I would have.

You said I would have limitless intelligence, so I think poof would be about the same to me.

Those people are perhaps mistaken. Evolution is evolution, and the universe is the universe. There is not necessarily a common process between them. Evolution is something observed on Earth and nowhere else yet. The universe is vast and much older than evolution.

Time is a factor. The couch potatoes are the ones who aren't adapting well to modern times, but some of them might make it.

I think evolution is a small, small piece of the puzzle. The hugeness of everything makes it impossible to be sure if evolution has only happened once or is happening everywhere. Maybe we are just very lucky.

I really like your comments on time. Mankind is far from really understanding it.

When genetic engineering advances enough, mankind will get rid of those less fit. WE couch potatoes are going to have to get off those couches and take them before it's too late. On the other hand, choosing a fit offspring to take care of us in our old ages might be the best choice.

 

[Valjean]

Why is lying on a couch not 'fit?'

 

[Bird123]

Neither choice is really a 'how', and how I'd do something would depend on a lot of factors. What am I trying to accomplish? Why? As for intelligent -- add a hundred more factors.
People generally prefer the simplest, quickest method. That would be #1. Wouldn't a slower, messier, more complex method be downright stupid?

Evolution isn't a mechanism. It's just change. The mechanisms constitute the Theory.
Change over time does happen, but I don't see why a magical personage has to be included in the process.
I'm not even sure what this means. Can you clarify?

You're misapplying evolution. There are social and economic factors involved in the schlub's surviving, but the brains and fingers that fashioned the society the schlub lives in were a product of evolution just like any other physical feature.
I don't think you understand evolution or what constitutes "fittest."

So you are saying that the fittest are surviving today, right?? Seems to me mankind is trying to get everyone to survive today.

You are right. There are lots of factors. Example: rate of reproduction of the most intelligent verses the less intelligent. Everything makes a difference.

Perhaps genetic engineering when it advances enough will get evolution back on track. Every parent will be able to pick the very best in their kids.

 

[Bird123]

If I were God, what would my options be?

The universe is. It happened. The mechanisms are currently being worked out by physicists.
So far, no intentionality or God seems necessary.

So God is not necessary, were you necessary? What is, is not always necessary. On the other hand, it might just be our limited views that allow us to make our judgment calls. Science is still working to understand everything just like we all are. What are you going to do when they discover God? I do think science will discover God before religion will. They are at least headed in the right direction.

 

[Bird123]

Why is lying on a couch not 'fit?'

Get up and run 1 mile. When you get back, you will understand.

 

[Valjean]

Fittest doesn't mean strongest or healthiest. Survival of the fittest means more like survival of the populations with features enabling them able to bring the most offspring to breeding age. Evolution works on populations.

Humans are an oddity, as technological advances spread immediately through the population, allowing 'defective' individuals to thrive.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Why is lying on a couch not 'fit?'

It's only "fit" in the evolutionary sense (and this applies to not being a couch potato, too) if it leaves offspring that can survive whatever selective pressures bear on the population--competition for resources, sex selection, parasite and disease burden, predation, etc.--and ensure survival of the genes in the gene pool. It's likely, as rich people control the resource of biological manipulation of the genetic code, that they will ensure that their traits are more likely to survive than those carried by the general, unmodified genes in the population.