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Is Complete Understanding Forbidden?

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Most of the time when I try to have a conversation with religious people about the things we do not understand, it doesn't take long to get into "Oh, that is forbidden". And, when I point out scriptural things that fuel my curiosity, people often try to explain away scripture by reciting pure nonsense to me.

While I'm open to belief in one God and the Jesus Christ, there is obviously much that we have not inquired into, so do not understand. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Micah 6:8 echoes the same sentiment.

Then there is Moses seeing and talking to God on multiple occasions. Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?
 

Earthling

David Henson
Most of the time when I try to have a conversation with religious people about the things we do not understand, it doesn't take long to get into "Oh, that is forbidden". And, when I point out scriptural things that fuel my curiosity, people often try to explain away scripture by reciting pure nonsense to me.

While I'm open to belief in one God and the Jesus Christ, there is obviously much that we have not inquired into, so do not understand. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Micah 6:8 echoes the same sentiment.

Then there is Moses seeing and talking to God on multiple occasions. Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?

Forbidden? Unknown? Sounds to me like someone doesn't have an answer for you. Satan tries to block our path to God. He uses governments, materialism, anything that might be a substitute for what God offers, hope purpose.

Also, there is a disconnect between us and God. We can't enter into his day of rest. That's why we have Jesus as a mediator, in prayer, and in the past connections with people like Abraham and Moses.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Most of the time when I try to have a conversation with religious people about the things we do not understand, it doesn't take long to get into "Oh, that is forbidden". And, when I point out scriptural things that fuel my curiosity, people often try to explain away scripture by reciting pure nonsense to me.

While I'm open to belief in one God and the Jesus Christ, there is obviously much that we have not inquired into, so do not understand. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Micah 6:8 echoes the same sentiment.

Then there is Moses seeing and talking to God on multiple occasions. Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?

I think these are great questions...

In my understanding, gaining understanding is not forbidden. Like a marriage, it is just a continual learning throughout the whole of one's life.

Question, IMV, are always good.

The power of Satan was hand delivered to him by man. It remains the same to this day. Like when you fear a bully, though in reality he doesn't have power, your fear delivers the power he needs to control. Scripturally, it says "the devil, as a roaringlion, walketh about, seeking whom he may (may as in you give him permission) devour: 1 Peter 5:8

So, ask on and know Him more.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?
Your questions are excellent. Keep exploring.
Use the scriptures to get to know yourself.
God will never condemn an honest search for the truth.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Complete understanding, and even near complete understanding is beyond the ability of fallible humans despite of many who claim to know and have exclusive understanding.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Complete understanding, and even near complete understanding is beyond the ability of fallible humans despite of many who claim to know and have exclusive understanding.

Assuming that is true doesn't make the seeking of knowledge less useful.
 
Most of the time when I try to have a conversation with religious people about the things we do not understand, it doesn't take long to get into "Oh, that is forbidden". And, when I point out scriptural things that fuel my curiosity, people often try to explain away scripture by reciting pure nonsense to me.

While I'm open to belief in one God and the Jesus Christ, there is obviously much that we have not inquired into, so do not understand. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Micah 6:8 echoes the same sentiment.

Then there is Moses seeing and talking to God on multiple occasions. Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?

I always like to say that religion should be a relationship with God. And you can't have a relationship without communication. So maybe God desires us to pray more?

I tend to go against the common belief that Satan is working on his own and that he is acting out the will of God in his own unfortunate way and that's why God sometimes has to give him commands. But I digress. You should always seek knowledge even if your fellow believes say not too.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Then there is Moses seeing and talking to God on multiple occasions. Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?

Why you think Satan block you (to get to know God)? If Moses could see God AND Satan is as powerful as you think, why Satan did not block Moses from seeing God?
That seems to prove that Satan is not as powerful as you think, don't you think so?

Reading your verse Luke 22.
3: Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Seems that Satan here(31) has to do with "faith that failed". Attribute power to Satan is the first step to "give your power away", don't you think? Why not make Satan small and God big?
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Questions are good...its how we learn.

Perhaps we are supposed to get to know God as fully as possible, but satan blocks that if he can?

Satan is a walking roadblock, seeking to prevent people from getting to know God and making the decision to serve his interests. The devil will paint the Creator in the worst possible light and make out that he is somehow the bad guy responsible for this mess we call life. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Any power the devil has is granted to him for a reason....and always with limits. (1 Corinthians 10:13)

I'm very puzzled about satan having any power at all, after what he did in the garden of Eden. Yet the book of Job, and his wanting to sift John like wheat, Luke 22, seems to imply that he does have some power to suggest things to God. How can this be?

There are two accounts in the Bible where the devil gives himself away. One is in connection with Job and the other is his temptation of Jesus.

With Job, the devil accused him of serving God only for selfish motives. God had blessed him with much material wealth and 10 beautiful children who had grown up with him as their family head and spiritual guide in the time of the Patriarchs. Satan had noticed this man and his outstanding faith. Seeing his interest, God asked if he had noticed how faithful this man was? The devil began to question Job's motives and told God to take away everything he valued and see if he would not curse God to his face.

In the light of the principle recorded at 1 Corinthians 10:13, God allowed satan to test Job's faith, but he was not to touch the man himself. One servant after another came with bad news and more bad news....he had lost all of his children and all of his assets had been stolen. But in spite of it all, he retained his integrity and never once ascribed anything bad to God.

Not content with that satan again asked God to test Job out...this time by striking him down with illness. He said a man would give anything in exchange for his life....and again God allowed the test, but told the devil he was not to take Job's life. The man passed this test also without ever knowing that the devil had challenged his faith.

This tells us what the devil is capable of, and how Job really represents all of us who serve the true God.
He is pointing fingers at all of us and making claims about our motives too...how are we answering him back?


The temptation of Jesus also tells us something about the devil's power and control.

In Luke ch 4 we read about the three temptations that were made to Jesus. The second one is particularly interesting I think. The devil offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for one act of worship.
He made a striking statement that Jesus did not refute. He said.... “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” (Luke 4:6-7)

All the kingdoms of the world were his to give and he could give authority over them to whomever he wished.
Doesn't that explain a lot about why the world is in such a mess? (1 John 5:19) But who alone could give that authority to satan and why?

It's simple.....that rebel spirit who was placed in a guardianship position in the garden if Eden, began to envy what humans were giving to God and he wanted a bit of that action for himself. There were never beings lower than himself before who could see him as a god, but now there were. Abusing his free will, he planned his move carefully and targeted the woman when she was alone. He inferred that God was holding back something to which they were entitled and tricked her into eating the fruit. Her husband realized what she had done but joined her anyway, choosing to stick with his wife rather than obey his God.

Since we become the servant of the one we obey, God allowed humans to reap what they had sown. They chose a new ruler, by obeying him, so God would let them reap the consequences and give them a first-hand lesson in why obeying their Creator would have been a much better option. He stepped back and did not interfere with their choices. The lesson would be a powerful one resulting in much evil and not a lot of good.

Not saying these things to challenge God in any way at all, but I am wondering if we are supposed to explore the unknown to more fully know him and to please him?

All God has ever asked of his intelligent creatures is their obedience and loyalty....not because his is on a power trip, but because he gave them all free will and took it upon himself to guide them in its proper use. Disobeying him had disastrous results and hopefully at the end of this object lesson, humans and angels will respect their Sovereign and follow his directions. The record of their independent course will serve as a warning for all time to come. No one will ever be able to challenge God's right to rule again.

That is how I see things.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Why you think Satan block you (to get to know God)? If Moses could see God AND Satan is as powerful as you think, why Satan did not block Moses from seeing God?
That seems to prove that Satan is not as powerful as you think, don't you think so?

Reading your verse Luke 22.
3: Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Seems that Satan here(31) has to do with "faith that failed". Attribute power to Satan is the first step to "give your power away", don't you think? Why not make Satan small and God big?

Satan blocks you by setting traps which you have to step into. God was dealing directly with Moses and there is nothing Satan could do about that, but still there was a block there from the sin Moses inherited from Adam, as well as the imperfect nature of mankind having not matured on a level that they could have, thus entering into God's rest. God's rest was a period of time after creation that God allowed for mankind to mature in the manner in which that angels had done previously, before the earth and it's inhabitants were created. Genesis 2:1-3 / Isaiah 40:28 / John 5:17 / Hebrews 3:16-19 Hebrews 4:6
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Satan blocks you by setting traps which you have to step into. God was dealing directly with Moses and there is nothing Satan could do about that, but still there was a block there from the sin Moses inherited from Adam, as well as the imperfect nature of mankind having not matured on a level that they could have, thus entering into God's rest. God's rest was a period of time after creation that God allowed for mankind to mature in the manner in which that angels had done previously, before the earth and it's inhabitants were created. Genesis 2:1-3 / Isaiah 40:28 / John 5:17 / Hebrews 3:16-19 Hebrews 4:6

It sounds like you claim to have complete understanding of scriptures,
 
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