Is Christmas Pagan?

[rational experiences]

Every state first existed not named

Basic human advice title is only human imposed.

Entitlement is everyone's. Equal human rights human being the title of inheritance.

We own the human rights to have food grow in the nature of heavenly balances. We own the human rights to heal our sacrificed life. So does animal beast life.

Mutual acceptance the celebration. Let's AllShare each other's food to celebrate life's diversity. Humans do cook lovely varied foods. I love my families diversity.

 

[Riders]

Do you want my opinion? Is it Pagan? Technically yes but so is the yearly calendar and we don't deny ourselves from using it. It is but what difference does it make? Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus and for them, that's all that counts. I don't believe Christmas is Pagan for Christians, but some Pagans consider it Pagan and celebrate it Pagan, and earthbased folks celebrate Yule at the same time as Christmas.

 

[Audie]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

Must be, we love it here.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Christmas is certainly pagan. It is the day of vernal equinox, 'dies natalis Invicti’, pushed back by three months by West-moving Indo-Europeans because of wrong time-keeping (not adjusting for precession of equinox) in some 6,000 years. The East-moving Indo-Europeans who came to India adjusted their calendar for it. A day in December cannot be the 'Day of Victorious Sun'.

 

[rational experiences]

Celebrating is a choice.

Choice. Do you change or give anything by thinking?

No.

Why do we celebrate? To make self feel merry. To feel joy and love and happiness with family together.

O earth it's heavens is not science owned.

Who cares what counting you apply.

 

[The Hammer]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

There are some overlaps with older pagan traditions. But Christmas as it is practiced today is Christian.

 

[The Hammer]

A day in December cannot be the 'Day of Victorious Sun

I disagree, as the sun has been at its lowest point in December and thus begins it's journey of strengthening at the Solstice, sounds like victory over the Darkness to me?

 

[firedragon]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

During that time, everything other than Judaism was pagan.

 

[Father Heathen]

"The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations." - Britannica

 

[Bree]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

Yes.

It is not a christian celebration. there is no 'christmas' in the bible.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

Pork is a pagan food. Shaving and grooming are pagan practices. It is pagan to wear mixed kinds of textiles instead of all cotton or all wool etc. It is pagan to have roofs that are not horizontal and that have no railings. It is pagan to eat shellfish. It is pagan to eat rare steak. It is pagan to eat beef and cheese together. It is pagan to live as if the day begins at midnight. It is pagan to speak the names of foreign gods such as when we say 'Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and Friday'. These are only part of the things we do that are pagan.

Why would some churches (mine did this) start to be concerned about christmas trees but not about these other things? I smell a rat. I smell a wolf in the midst of sheep attempting to stir up division, to take advantage of fear and separate friend from friend. Only the wolf benefits.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

The core of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus, who is the Christian deity. That's why its called Christ Mass. The day of December 25 was chosen because it is nine months after the feast of the conception on March 25 (pregnancy lasting nine months). And December 25 was celebrated for Christmas before saturnalia even became a pagan holiday, so it is unrelated to that. It incorporates some of the superficial trappings of nearby pagan holiday of the past, but none of the substance.

Since the 1800s, Christmas has burst its Christian origins to become a secular holiday as well. This modern, secular Christmas has its roots in two works of literature: Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" and Clement Clark Moore's "The Night Before Christmas." Trees, wreaths, Santa Claus, songs about snow, are all part of this secular tradition. This is why so many people who are not Christian also celebrate the day.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Happy Christmas from the Ancient Britons

 

[Augustus]

"The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations." - Britannica

*some people who don't really care about evidence or critical thinking have speculated.

"Well it woz Constantine wot done it, innit. Just after he invented the Bible and Jesus"

 

[Altfish]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

It certainly has Pagan roots.

I'm not religious but I celebrate Christmas; it is an inclusive holiday that most celebrate (Not least because most people have days off school/work during this period)

 

[Augustus]

It certainly has Pagan roots.

Based on what evidence?

Surely as a secular humanist you value evidence and reason over myth and prejudice.

 

[Augustus]

And December 25 was celebrated for Christmas before saturnalia even became a pagan holiday, so it is unrelated to that. I

The dating of Christmas on 25 Dec significantly predates the celebration of Christmas on 25 Dec. It was more theological musing and calculation regrading Easter that led to it.

Saturnalia predates it as a celebration, but was not on 25 Dec and Saturnalia and Christmas continued to be celebrated side by side in the same societies for many years which would be very odd if one was a replacement of the other.

It is true for other claimed origins or Christmas like Dies Natalis Sol Invictus, probably Yule too which both seem to be later. People just assume that "pagan" = ancient because paganism predates Christianity so everything "pagan" must predate Christianity. This is a conceptual problem of labelling everything non-Abrahamic as "pagan" and leads to confused thinking.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The dating of Christmas on 25 Dec significantly predates the celebration of Christmas on 25 Dec. It was more theological musing and calculation regrading Easter that led to it.

Saturnalia predates it as a celebration, but was not on 25 Dec and Saturnalia and Christmas continued to be celebrated side by side in the same societies for many years which would be very odd if one was a replacement of the other.

It is true for other claimed origins or Christmas like Dies Natalis Sol Invictus, probably Yule too which both seem to be later. People just assume that "pagan" = ancient because paganism predates Christianity so everything "pagan" must predate Christianity. This is a conceptual problem of labelling everything non-Abrahamic as "pagan" and leads to confused thinking.

Christmas was celebrated on December 25 by SOME churches long long before the day was made universal. And these eearly Dec 25 celebrations PREDATE the holiday of Saturnalia.

 

[Augustus]

Christmas was celebrated on December 25 by SOME churches long long before the day was made universal. And these eearly Dec 25 celebrations PREDATE the holiday of Saturnalia.

Is there any evidence for this?

We can probably date 25 Dec as Christmas back to the 3rd C, but AFAIK no evidence of celebrations this early. Even the dating requires a degree of inference from sources rather than being directly stated.

I compiled some of the more recent scholarship on the issue in this thread: Christmas 25 Dec: Scholarly views

Always interested in additional sources though.

 

[ChristineM]

Santa Clause Christmas trees elves etc..................................is it Pagan?

I was taught that Christmas was developed when trying to convert northern Europeans to Christianity. A case of join our club and bring your mid winter feast with you.