Is Christianity that bad?

[Spiderman]

Ok

Om not offended, i just thought it odd that you should pluck a post of mine from a thread to start another. A quick pm to ask would hsve been polite

Ok thanks! Better luck next time

 

[Milton Platt]

True many Christians do a lot of damage, but atheist communists killed more people in the 20th century than Christians did. That doesn't make atheists bad does it?

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with Christianity?
Atheism?
Islam?
Judaism?

Not true. The deaths were due to political and social ideologies, not atheism.

 

[Spiderman]

Ok

Om not offended, i just thought it odd that you should pluck a post of mine from a thread to start another. A quick pm to ask would hsve been polite

Beings that you were venting about something traumatic, I feel bad that I did that and brought attention to you. I'm not the brightest lightbulb and can be impulsive.

 

[Augustus]

Through recorded history religion had killed far more than any other un-natural cause.

False.

Wouldn't even make the top 3 (nationalism, communism, 'I want to relieve you of your land/possessions/titles)'). 90+% of wars were not religious in nature.

Both Stalin and Hitler were christian until their deaths

False.

The USSR anti-religious campaign of 1928–1941 was a new phase of anti-religious persecution in the Soviet Union following the anti-religious campaign of 1921–1928. The campaign began in 1929, with the drafting of new legislation that severely prohibited religious activities and called for a heightened attack on religion in order to further disseminate atheism. This had been preceded in 1928 at the fifteenth party congress, where Joseph Stalin criticized the party for failure to produce more active and persuasive anti-religious propaganda. This new phase coincided with the beginning of the forced mass collectivization of agriculture and the nationalization of the few remaining private enterprises.

Many of those who had been arrested in the 1920s would continue to remain in prison throughout the 1930s and beyond.

The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labour camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited.[1] More than 85,000 Orthodox priests were shot in 1937 alone.[2] Only a twelfth of the Russian Orthodox Church's priests were left functioning in their parishes by 1941.[3]

In the period between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox Churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to less than 500.[4]

The campaign slowed down in the late 1930s and early 1940s, and came to an abrupt end after the commencement of Operation Barbarossa.[1] The challenge produced by the German invasion would ultimately prevent the public withering away of religion in Soviet society.[5]

Pol Pot was Buddhist,

And the hattrick...

The Khmer Rouge also classified people based on their religious and ethnic backgrounds. Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge had a policy of state atheism.[222] All religions were banned, and the repression of adherents of Islam,[223] Christianity,[224] and Buddhism was extensive. Nearly 25,000 Buddhist monks were massacred by the regime.

 

[74x12]

I consider that an ignorant insult.

First, my post was in direct response to the OP that was addressed to me

Second, every word of my post was factual, it may pop you bubble but that is not my problem

Now do you want to go on with your insults?

Okay, look if I said "bloody atheists" how would you feel?

 

[crossfire]

All true, but it because of religion that they do it

Under Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge instigated state-imposed atheism banned all religions, and slaughtered Buddhist monks, Muslims, Christians, ethnic minorities, and intellectuals. Are you saying that the state-imposed Atheism was a religion that drove the Khmer Rouge to do it?

 

[dianaiad]

Through recorded history religion had killed far more than any other un-natural cause.

And are you counting Hiller, Stalin (and arguably Pol Pot) as atheist because that is not so.
Both Stalin and Hitler were christian until their deaths
Pol Pot was Buddhist, educated by catholics.

I doubt that he is. I don't, when I make that claim. ...Well, Pol Pot, perhaps, because he claimed to be something religious, sorta, but then targeted the priests and monks of the group he claimed to be a part of. As for Stalin, Are you claiming that 'once a Christian, always a Christian?" Because Stalin, however he was raised, was NOT a Christian during the time he did most of his damage...you know, starving the Ukrainians? I've never counted Hitler in with that group.

Religion that indoctrinates children from birth is wrong
Religion that kills in the name of religion (or its gods) is wrong
Religion that bars progress and lives in deliberate ignorance is wrong

So don't join one of those. Oh...do you know what the difference between 'teaching' and 'indoctrination' is?

Depends on one's point of view. IN the USA, parents tend to indoctrinate their kids into speaking English, following the school rules and obeying the law, as well as paying attention to the way politics work (according to how the parents feel about that, of course). Atheists indoctrinate their children into the idea that there is no God. Catholics teach their children that there is one. YOU would, of course, say that the other way around.

Tough. We teach our children the values we hold dear, whatever religion or lack of same we have. If you say that 'Religion that indocrinates children from birth is wrong,' I say that atheists who indoctrinate children from birth are wrong.

I DARE you to explain why one is so horribly wrong and the other is just fine and dandy....in a way that doesn't involve some form of: 'because I'm right about there being no god and you are too stupid to live if you disagree with that"

There are more but i can't be bothered considering you purloined my post from another thread and forced this on me

Is Atheism wrong? Is the disbileaf in gods when no evidence exists for gods wrong? Is not collecting stamps wrong, is not playing football wrong?

Define 'wrong.'

One's belief is one's belief. YOU are calling 'wrong' the imposition of one's belief upon one's children. Or at least, the imposition of beliefs YOU DON"T SHARE upon children to be wrong.

Here's a news flash, Christine. You raise your kids the way you want to. Indoctrinate them according to your values. Good for you. DO NOT JUDGE EVERYBODY ELSE as beneath you, stupid, wrong, vile, or any other epithet you may come up with other than those, for doing the same with THEIR kids you do with yours.

Religion, as it happens, is NOT wrong. PEOPLE are, and are frequently. They will use whatever is to hand to twist around to suit their purposes. If they don't have "Religion" or "Religion" causes them too many problems, they will go to whatever belief system can be classed under ''atheism' and use that.

It's not the belief system. It never is. It's always the people who screw it up.

 

[Heyo]

Religion or no religion people seem to find ways and reasons for killing off other people, it's part of our primate evolution but we are far more dangerous due to our intellectual development.

Good observation. And the conclusion is of course that religion has no influence on the morals of a person. (If you look closer you'll find that it has a small but negative influence.) And given the stated goal of many religious people, I call that a complete fail.

 

[McBell]

True many Christians do a lot of damage, but atheist communists killed more people in the 20th century than Christians did. That doesn't make atheists bad does it?

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with Christianity?
Atheism?
Islam?
Judaism?

Your title says "Christianity".
Your OP says "Christians".

Are you asking about both?
I personally have no problems with Christianity.
It is the Christians that rub me the wrong way.
And not even all of them.

 

[Spiderman]

Your title says "Christianity".
Your OP says "Christians".

Are you asking about both?
I personally have no problems with Christianity.
It is the Christians that rub me the wrong way.
And not even all of them.

I was referring to Christianity

 

[ChristineM]

Beings that you were venting about something traumatic, I feel bad that I did that and brought attention to you. I'm not the brightest lightbulb and can be impulsive.

dont worry about it

 

[ChristineM]

I doubt that he is. I don't, when I make that claim. ...Well, Pol Pot, perhaps, because he claimed to be something religious, sorta, but then targeted the priests and monks of the group he claimed to be a part of. As for Stalin, Are you claiming that 'once a Christian, always a Christian?" Because Stalin, however he was raised, was NOT a Christian during the time he did most of his damage...you know, starving the Ukrainians? I've never counted Hitler in with that group.



So don't join one of those. Oh...do you know what the difference between 'teaching' and 'indoctrination' is?

Depends on one's point of view. IN the USA, parents tend to indoctrinate their kids into speaking English, following the school rules and obeying the law, as well as paying attention to the way politics work (according to how the parents feel about that, of course). Atheists indoctrinate their children into the idea that there is no God. Catholics teach their children that there is one. YOU would, of course, say that the other way around.

Tough. We teach our children the values we hold dear, whatever religion or lack of same we have. If you say that 'Religion that indocrinates children from birth is wrong,' I say that atheists who indoctrinate children from birth are wrong.

I DARE you to explain why one is so horribly wrong and the other is just fine and dandy....in a way that doesn't involve some form of: 'because I'm right about there being no god and you are too stupid to live if you disagree with that"



Define 'wrong.'

One's belief is one's belief. YOU are calling 'wrong' the imposition of one's belief upon one's children. Or at least, the imposition of beliefs YOU DON"T SHARE upon children to be wrong.

Here's a news flash, Christine. You raise your kids the way you want to. Indoctrinate them according to your values. Good for you. DO NOT JUDGE EVERYBODY ELSE as beneath you, stupid, wrong, vile, or any other epithet you may come up with other than those, for doing the same with THEIR kids you do with yours.

Religion, as it happens, is NOT wrong. PEOPLE are, and are frequently. They will use whatever is to hand to twist around to suit their purposes. If they don't have "Religion" or "Religion" causes them too many problems, they will go to whatever belief system can be classed under ''atheism' and use that.

It's not the belief system. It never is. It's always the people who screw it up.

I am claiming that Stalin rebuilt the russian church by reopening seminaries and 20,000 churches after the revolution, donated millions to those churches, was heard to say "surely Christ lives", was known as the only christian in the kremlin and when he died he had not 1, not 2 but 3 archbishop's officiate at his christian funeral. The actions of an atheist??? I think not.

You seem to confuse nationalism with atheism, common enough among those who know better.

Hitler was the catholic leader of a majority protestant country, his words are plain enough but on top of that, he had Vatican backing.

Don't be insulting, such a pathetic question so i will ignore the rest of your post, no doubt your points are already been answered orvrefuted millions of times,

 

[ChristineM]

False.

Wouldn't even make the top 3 (nationalism, communism, 'I want to relieve you of your land/possessions/titles)'). 90+% of wars were not religious in nature.



False.

The USSR anti-religious campaign of 1928–1941 was a new phase of anti-religious persecution in the Soviet Union following the anti-religious campaign of 1921–1928. The campaign began in 1929, with the drafting of new legislation that severely prohibited religious activities and called for a heightened attack on religion in order to further disseminate atheism. This had been preceded in 1928 at the fifteenth party congress, where Joseph Stalin criticized the party for failure to produce more active and persuasive anti-religious propaganda. This new phase coincided with the beginning of the forced mass collectivization of agriculture and the nationalization of the few remaining private enterprises.

Many of those who had been arrested in the 1920s would continue to remain in prison throughout the 1930s and beyond.

The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labour camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited.[1] More than 85,000 Orthodox priests were shot in 1937 alone.[2] Only a twelfth of the Russian Orthodox Church's priests were left functioning in their parishes by 1941.[3]

In the period between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox Churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to less than 500.[4]

The campaign slowed down in the late 1930s and early 1940s, and came to an abrupt end after the commencement of Operation Barbarossa.[1] The challenge produced by the German invasion would ultimately prevent the public withering away of religion in Soviet society.[5]



And the hattrick...

The Khmer Rouge also classified people based on their religious and ethnic backgrounds. Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge had a policy of state atheism.[222] All religions were banned, and the repression of adherents of Islam,[223] Christianity,[224] and Buddhism was extensive. Nearly 25,000 Buddhist monks were massacred by the regime.

You want a list of just those i have compiled?

Here ya go

"US Western Expansion (Justified by ""Manifest Destiny""):20,000,000"
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
Muslim/Bab’i conflict, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Croatia, 1991-92
Crusades, 1095-1291 - 6,000,000

Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
English Civil War, 1642-46
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq War: 500,000
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978

Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92 250,000
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s- 1,000,000

Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 - 5,000

St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Thirty Years War, 1618-48 - 11,500,000

Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857

Not all the totals are in there but it is estimated at over 800,000,000
Or a little under 10% of every human being that has ever lived on this planet


Interesting that many of the wiki kinks you provide point to instances where either one side or both are killing in the name of religion

 

[firedragon]

Through recorded history religion had killed far more than any other un-natural cause.

Please provide data to prove your claim?

I can tell you outright that your statement is absolutely untrue.

 

[ChristineM]

Okay, look if I said "bloody atheists" how would you feel?

That does not address your insult

If you had atheists drive you from the church you loves then you would be welcome to call them what you want

Also if you had atheist try to kill your children then i am pretty sure you would use stronger language than i did

If you had atheists amputate a relative's arm with a slate while that arm was literally holding your shoulder and it's owner checking to see what damage the shrapnel had done to your eye i am pretty sure your language would not be so tame.

But what should i expect from religion?

 

[ChristineM]

Under Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge instigated state-imposed atheism banned all religions, and slaughtered Buddhist monks, Muslims, Christians, ethnic minorities, and intellectuals. Are you saying that the state-imposed Atheism was a religion that drove the Khmer Rouge to do it?

Is nationalism a religion?

 

[firedragon]

True many Christians do a lot of damage, but atheist communists killed more people in the 20th century than Christians did. That doesn't make atheists bad does it?

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with Christianity?
Atheism?
Islam?
Judaism?

You will find the atheists replying to you the same way a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew would respond when you point at them. It shows that even atheists have that religious belonging sentiment. This is the time atheists become just like the religious evangelists and apologists who will stick by the tribe and even try and twist some truths with that nature propping up. And of course i dont say "all atheists" but some.

Anyway, factually what you said is true from the perspective of the tribe sentiment. People who call themselves atheists are not all atheists. Statistics has shown that some 8 percent of them have admitted in research that though they identify themselves as atheists, they actually believe God exists. So by definition they are not atheists, but they identify themselves as atheists.

I dont know the numbers but i am sure (this is speculation since i dont have the research data) that many who identify themselves with a religion do not believe in a God. When i say many i don't mean most.

So its a strange discussion to have actually calling out numbers.

 

[crossfire]

Is nationalism a religion?

A strong case could be made for it. Tribalism has both nationist and religious expressions.

 

[crossfire]

You want a list of just those i have compiled?

Here ya go

"US Western Expansion (Justified by ""Manifest Destiny""):20,000,000"
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
Muslim/Bab’i conflict, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Croatia, 1991-92
Crusades, 1095-1291 - 6,000,000

Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
English Civil War, 1642-46
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq War: 500,000
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978

Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92 250,000
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s- 1,000,000

Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 - 5,000

St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Thirty Years War, 1618-48 - 11,500,000

Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857

Not all the totals are in there but it is estimated at over 800,000,000
Or a little under 10% of every human being that has ever lived on this planet


Interesting that many of the wiki kinks you provide point to instances where either one side or both are killing in the name of religion

This is a great resource for all of the horrible things people have done to each other throughout history.
Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls

Here's a link to the top 20:
Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

 

[dianaiad]

I am claiming that Stalin rebuilt the russian church by reopening seminaries and 20,000 churches after the revolution, donated millions to those churches, was heard to say "surely Christ lives", was known as the only christian in the kremlin and when he died he had not 1, not 2 but 3 archbishop's officiate at his christian funeral. The actions of an atheist??? I think not.

You seem to confuse nationalism with atheism, common enough among those who know better.

Hitler was the catholic leader of a majority protestant country, his words are plain enough but on top of that, he had Vatican backing.

Don't be insulting, such a pathetic question so i will ignore the rest of your post, no doubt your points are already been answered orvrefuted millions of times,

I'm not the one being insulting here.

And what part of 'I don't include Hitler with that group' do you keep MISSING?