Is Christianity Picked On?

[ChrisP]

Great points, michel, Net Doc It's funny how 'us Christians' are all lumped together. So I guess we need to go with the flow. Since a well known Christian tele-evangelist says the war is a good thing, we all should feel that way. We all are Republicans, right? And we all love shrub!

Clue; Just because a few Christians that get air time does not make us all alike.​

Of the Christians on this forum you three are definitely the most free thinking! Apparently I frubal you all too often. (probably for the reason above).

 

[James the Persian]

The 'Christianity' of the sort that was displayed by the quotes posted earlier does deserve to be picked on. But it's not really Christianity so far as I can see (and particularly not that horrifying stuff from the anti-abortionist). The problem comes when people over-generalise that sort of hateful false Christianity into a description of all those who follow Christianity. That is neither fair nor defensible but it is, unfortunately, a common type of human behaviour.

I can't speak for the US, but what Michel says is certainly about right for the UK. I do think, however, that there is a certain double standard in our media that can cause Christians to feel picked on. The worst aspect of this, from my point of view, is that never does a Christmas or Easter go by without some television programme attacking our faith in some way, usually by blaspheming Christ or the Theotokos. I have no objection to them airing such programmes but I would think a certain degree of sensitivity should be adhered to in the scheduling. I can't imagine a documentary blaspheming Mohammad being aired during Ramadan so why was it OK to blaspheme Mary last Christmas?

Outside of the media, though, I don't see Christianity getting unfair treatment here. If anyone suffers that it's the Muslims. I work in Burley (where the bomb making factory for the 7th July bombings was) and believe me the Muslim community here (most of whom are perfectly nice people) were certainly hounded this summer. Some still are.

James

 

[Scuba Pete]

Great points, michel, Net Doc It's funny how 'us Christians' are all lumped together.

It's amazing to me that when you point out the bigotry, we are patted on the head and told "not to worry" about it. It sounds strangely familiar!

So I guess we need to go with the flow. Since a well known Christian tele-evangelist says the war is a good thing, we all should feel that way. We all are Republicans, right? And we all love shrub!

Never! Never stop fighting for peace! Never stop fighting against hypocristy! Never stop fighting against sheer meanness! But of course, I am preaching not just to the choir here, but the choir director himself! Rock on dude!

Clue; Just because a few Christians that get air time does not make us all alike.

Amen Bro! Amen!​

 

[Scuba Pete]

Of the Christians on this forum you three are definitely the most free thinking! Apparently I frubal you all too often. (probably for the reason above).

Frubals on your head.

 

[michel]

If anyone suffers that it's the Muslims. I work in Burley (where the bomb making factory for the 7th July bombings was) and believe me the Muslim community here (most of whom are perfectly nice people) were certainly hounded this summer. Some still are.

James

What a great shame;

Of the Christians on this forum you three are definitely the most free thinking! Apparently I frubal you all too often. (probably for the reason above).

It's lovely to be part of such an elite clique; thanks guys.........

(I could get used to all this mutual back patting!)

 

[Scuba Pete]

But it's not really Christianity so far as I can see (and particularly not that horrifying stuff from the anti-abortionist). The problem comes when people over-generalise that sort of hateful false Christianity into a description of all those who follow Christianity. That is neither fair nor defensible but it is, unfortunately, a common type of human behaviour.

Fortunately, these common attitudes can change. It is now rare to find a true racist here in Orlando, but that wasn't the case back in the sixties. Back then I heard those racists justify their positions much the same way as we hear the anti-Christian bigots justify their current positions. In fact, just as back then, many can't even see their bigotry and they certainly resent it being pointed out to them. Go figure, huh?

 

[Melody]

There is little doubt in my mind that Christ would be "tipping tables", spewing money, and chasing the money providers out of the business of his church.

Ahhh...for the good old days <sigh>.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

I've been ostracized and bullied by all manner of religious & political groups, as has just about everyone. Its hard not to hold a grudge but there is no denying grudges distort perception. When you find yourself making judgments based on group identification rather than due reflection & consideration, be careful!

 

[michel]

I've been ostracized and bullied by all manner of religious & political groups, as has just about everyone. Its hard not to hold a grudge but there is no denying grudges distort perception. When you find yourself making judgments based on group identification rather than due reflection & consideration, be careful!

Wow, and I see you're a 'home grown'; in which part of the UK do you live ?

 

[Fluffy]

It is generally more acceptable to "pick on" the majority over the minority. The same goes for most things. If I made a racist joke about white people, very few would have a problem with it but if I made a racist joke about black people, there would be hell to pay. The same goes for heterosexuals and homosexuals.

In a similar scenario, it is more acceptable to "pick on" the percieved oppressor over the victim. For example, sexist jokes against men are seen as more acceptable than sexist jokes against women.

However, I have recently come to notice a difference between persecution of the majority and persecution of the minority. The former happens much, much less because there are less people to do it. You only hear about it more because a) everyone knows about it so it becomes the butt of jokes more easily and b) there are more people to be offended by it and so a bigger deal is made about it.

I personally, know of a hell of a lot of persecution against Christians. Much more than I know about Wicca. But most of these people haven't heard of Wicca and most of the ones who have, are also the ones who persecute Wicca. It is the price of being in the public eye so much I guess. That doesn't make it right but it is a possible reason.

 

[s2a]

NetDoc said:

It is also revealing that you take such a cavalier attitude towards bigotry.

You misunderstand me. My cavalier attitude is directed towards your propensity for injecting allusions/aspersions in blithe commentary with intangible specificity. It is these types of commentaries that earn my "cavalier" replies that you suffer as result. Your own "cavalier" (and reckless, in my estimation) proclivities in casually tossing about inflammatory innuendo and inference, while neither "naming names" or citing specific examples as support of such spurious claims, renders you subject to the sarcasm and dismissive "attitudes" that you earn whilst you are hoisted upon your own petard.

Speak plainly.

If you wish to call/label/accuse someone of being (or presenting themselves as): a bigot; a racist; biased; prejudiced; or some other untoward boorish behavior, then say so - or give it a rest.

It is neither profound nor compelling commentary to indulge in abjectly spurious claims of offense and injury in oblique, obtuse, and pointless references.

I will not account for you my "real-life" efforts to overcome bigotry, prejudice, bias, and injustice in my community, for they are neither requisite in defense of my "cavalier attitude", character, or behavior. Atheists encounter more bigotry, negative bias, and community disfavor and mistrust than most Christians would even care to contemplate or acknowledge...so spare me your estimations of my "attitude" towards bigotry. You have no idea. Whether I deal with real bigotry in a "cavalier" fashion, or by other method...is of my own accounting to answer and bear. Rest assured that your input in that regard is deemed uninformed, and of no use to me.

I guess it only matters when you are the object of derision.

You have been invited upon numerous occasions to question/examine, even openly deride any of my (you know - addressing me specifically - not in some ambiguous, vague, or general reference) stated perspectives, observations, or commentaries.

The invitation remains...for you to deride away on your horse of righteousness and moral superiority in slaying this noisome cavalier.

 

[jeffrey]

Fluffy, I agree with you. You can have a mag called Jet or Ebony, which is proudly proclaimed 'the magazine for black people', but if Life mag but on their cover 'The magazine for white people', katty bar the door, all hell would brake out. It's cool to be a bigot towards whites. It's cool to be a bigot towards Christians. Bigotry towards anybody is wrong.

 

[michel]

It is generally more acceptable to "pick on" the majority over the minority. The same goes for most things. If I made a racist joke about white people, very few would have a problem with it but if I made a racist joke about black people, there would be hell to pay. The same goes for heterosexuals and homosexuals.

In a similar scenario, it is more acceptable to "pick on" the percieved oppressor over the victim. For example, sexist jokes against men are seen as more acceptable than sexist jokes against women.

However there is a I have recently come to notice a difference between persecution of the majority and persecution of the minority. The former happens much, much less because there are less people to do it. You only hear about it more because a) everyone knows about it so it becomes the butt of jokes more easily and b) there are more people to be offended by it and so a bigger deal is made about it.

I personally, know of a hell of a lot of persecution against Christians. Much more than I know about Wicca. But most of these people haven't heard of Wicca and most of the ones who have, are also the ones who persecute Wicca. It is the price of being in the public eye so much I guess. That doesn't make it right but it is a possible reason.

perfectly true; good post!

 

[jeffrey]

s2a, I take it your against any teaching of Christianity in schools. 1st, would you not agree that most atheists where taught some form of Christianity at one time or another, and using their own free will, chose not to believe? My wife home schools. She teaches Christianity, Wiccan beliefs, Buddhist beliefs, and others, and leaves it up to them to choose the path they wish to partake.

 

[Scuba Pete]

If you wish to call/label/accuse someone of being (or presenting themselves as): a bigot; a racist; biased; prejudiced; or some other untoward boorish behavior, then say so - or give it a rest.

Great concept: but it's not allowed by the TOS. When I have done so I have been censured. I have gone to great lengths to abide by the TOS and now you criticise me for playing within the rules? Get a grip.

You have been invited upon numerous occasions to question/examine, even openly deride any of my (you know - addressing me specifically - not in some ambiguous, vague, or general reference) stated perspectives, observations, or commentaries.

The invitation remains...for you to deride away on your horse of righteousness and moral superiority in slaying this noisome cavalier.

I am sure that it would amuse you to see me banned for indulging in such boorish behavior. If you can't understand my generalities, please don't blame me! If you can't apply the criticisms then again: don't blame me. If my rhetoric hurts your eyes, then PLEASE put me on ignore. However, your "put up or shut up" diatribe is disengenuous and to quote one of my greatest critics on this board: "Rubbish". Your attempt to silence me by asking me to break the TOS is nothing short of ludicrous.

PS: I also invite you to stop beating your wife and to stop killing kittens.

 

[Ceridwen018]

The idea that Christians living in such areas as America or Europe are "picked on" is aboslutely ridiculous. I fail to see how a vast majority can be persecuted, when they outnumber all of the minorities, even when those minorities are all grouped together.

The president of my country, (a Christian by the way...along with every other President of the United States, as well as the vast majority of Congressmen and and Supreme Court Justices...hhmmm), has stated that people of my spiritual beliefs, or lack thereof, do not even "deserve the rights of the Constitution." Perhaps I am the one who should be whining about persecution here, certainly not the Christians for god's sake.

Seriously though, how much more dominance over this country do you guys need to have before you will consider yourselves, "not persecuted"?

 

[Majikthise]

The idea that Christians living in such areas as America or Europe are "picked on" is aboslutely ridiculous. I fail to see how a vast majority can be persecuted, when they outnumber all of the minorities, even when those minorities are all grouped together.

The president of my country, (a Christian by the way...along with every other President of the United States, as well as the vast majority of Congressmen and and Supreme Court Justices...hhmmm), has stated that people of my spiritual beliefs, or lack thereof, do not even "deserve the rights of the Constitution." Perhaps I am the one who should be whining about persecution here, certainly not the Christians for god's sake.

Seriously though, how much more dominance over this country do you guys need to have before you will consider yourselves, "not persecuted"?

Crystal clear.
Frubals to you.

 

[Dark_Waltz]

Its quite confusing at times though isn't it Christianity here where I live is seen as being normal, and if a church got vandalised it would be a real shame but there would be little coverage over it, A mosque a shul gets vandalised then minorities are being picked on
Its just hard to get it right

 

[Majikthise]

S2A

I would also point out that all those people you quoted were cauasion. Perhaps you should rail against all the honkies instead of just the Christians?

Oh ND, I can always count on you for a good laugh!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Seriously though, how much more dominance over this country do you guys need to have before you will consider yourselves, "not persecuted"?

Here it is in graphic form, Ceridwen: you have convicted all Christians for the acts of a few. Do you really think that I am after "dominance"? Do you really lump me together with Jerry Falwell or even Bush? To say I am HIGHLY offended at this sort of gross generalization is putting it incredibly lightly. I thought far better of you. Or should I just lump every atheist together and say "I thought better of you guys"?

As an aside, I believe Ceridwen to be one of the nicest and fairest people on this forum, and have always appreciated her openness to the thoughts of others.