Is Christianity consistant w/ judaism?

[jewscout]

It is consistant if B=C.

but B is not equal to C, that's the point..

The one constant between Jew and Christians is the 10 Commandments. Can we all agree on that?

well technically these were commandments for the jews...but if christians want to live by them too that's cool...

Jewscout. I have a question. I have always assumed that Jesus was not accepted by his people because he did not follow their traditions. He stepped 'out of the box' so to speak. Earlier you mentioned that Jesus was not accepted because he did not fulfill the prophecy. Can you elaborate on this for me? What prophecies were not fulfilled.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6327
http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html
http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm#Jesus

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Ok I read through the links that you posted. I wanted to make sure you didn't have a new arguement.

1. Gather in the exiled jews:
"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the Earth." Isaiah 11:12

1. Was there a time limit for this to have happened? Or is it's delay caused by man's disbelief? And is this the literal place Isreal or the larger 'spirit of Isreal'?

2. Rebuild the Temple which was destroyed not long after the time in which Jesus lived:
"...and i will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..." (Ezekiel 37:26-27)

Were we not told that our body is our temple. The Jewish churches had become corrupt and money mongers, Jesus was reminding you of the original teachings, using his body as the temple and his ressurection and the proof that was requested of him.

3. The Moshiach will rule during a time when all Jews will obey G-d's commandments:
"My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

Which ordinances and statutes are being referred to. The laws of God or the traditions of man?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

PS And geneolgy. If he was born of a virgin, Joseph' s bloodline doesn't matter in the least. And since women were not valuable enough to keep records on, her geneology can only be speculated. But the Jews of their time would not have considered it valid, that why they were all trying to manipulate Joseph's bloodline to fit. But his blood doesn't matter.


gotta go get the kids, be back later

 

[jewscout]

first i should preface this by saying it is traditionally forbidden to try to predict the coming of the moshiach...and there are a million and one opinions on many of these points...i will do the best i can to address them...

1. Was there a time limit for this to have happened? Or is it's delay caused by man's disbelief? And is this the literal place Isreal or the larger 'spirit of Isreal'?

This will occur when the Moshiach arrives, which is in G-d's time, not ours...there are things we can do to hasten this day, both good ways and bad ways...from what i understand it is both in a spiritual sense of the Jews being on the same page spiritually and physically in the land that HaShem promised to Abraham, Issac and Jacob

Were we not told that our body is our temple. The Jewish churches had become corrupt and money mongers, Jesus was reminding you of the original teachings, using his body as the temple and his ressurection and the proof that was requested of him.

no it is speaking of a literal physical Temple which will be on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem...whether the sacrafices will be reinstituted is of some debate...we'll have to wait and see

Which ordinances and statutes are being referred to. The laws of God or the traditions of man?

The 613 Mitzvot of the Torah listed w/ verses here: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

 

[jewscout]

PS And geneolgy. If he was born of a virgin, Joseph' s bloodline doesn't matter in the least. And since women were not valuable enough to keep records on, her geneology can only be speculated. But the Jews of their time would not have considered it valid, that why they were all trying to manipulate Joseph's bloodline to fit. But his blood doesn't matter.


gotta go get the kids, be back later

well if he's born of a virgin it's hard to be of the patrilinial blood line of King David and therefore he can not be the Moshiach

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

well if he's born of a virgin it's hard to be of the patrilinial blood line of King David and therefore he can not be the Moshiach

Does it say that is has to be the PATRILINIAL bloodline? Or is this more evidence that women were treated as non-equal?

 

[jewscout]

Does it say that is has to be the PATRILINIAL bloodline? Or is this more evidence that women were treated as non-equal?

it's patrilinial...and i HIGHLY doubt that it has to do w/ putting women down...the royal line was passed Patrilinially as it is in many societies...

i'm sure you've heard that the Faith of a child in Judaism, however, is passed down MATRILINIALLY

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

it's patrilinial...and i HIGHLY doubt that it has to do w/ putting women down...the royal line was passed Patrilinially as it is in many societies...

i'm sure you've heard that the Faith of a child in Judaism, however, is passed down MATRILINIALLY

Yes, if the mother is jewish, then the child is considered jewish. Why then, wouldn't the mothers bloodline be recorded? What if a generation didn't have any boys. Does the bloodline end? I know most societies follow the fathers' bloodline, but is it right? I think this is bizarre, but only since modern technology has shown us that one sperm of the man makes a baby, it is the blood of the mother that flows through it during pregancy, and if the mothers blood is not compatable with the genes that was given by the man, the womans' body with distroy the embryo.

Why do you continue to deny that women have been oppressed for most of history, why else did we need to rise up and fight for equal rights? I'm not saying it was your fault it happened the way it did. But this is based on fact, not speculation.

 

[jewscout]

Yes, if the mother is jewish, then the child is considered jewish. Why then, wouldn't the mothers bloodline be recorded? What if a generation didn't have any boys. Does the bloodline end? I know most societies follow the fathers' bloodline, but is it right? I think this is bizarre, but only since modern technology has shown us that one sperm of the man makes a baby, it is the blood of the mother that flows through it during pregancy, and if the mothers blood is not compatable with the genes that was given by the man, the womans' body with distroy the embryo.

i imagine the patrilinial recording is a societal...thank HaShem we've had enough of each sex to keep going
that's pretty interesting w/ the whole pregnancy thing...here check this out..
http://www.aish.com/Avantgo/articles/torahportion/shragasweekly/Spiritually_Pure.asp

Why do you continue to deny that women have been oppressed for most of history, why else did we need to rise up and fight for equal rights? I'm not saying it was your fault it happened the way it did. But this is based on fact, not speculation.

i'm in no way saying that women were not oppressed throughout most, if not all, of human history...
my bone to pick is the way in which you've intentionally or unintentionally painted Judaism as the end all and be all of schauvanistic pig headedness...

 

[rivenrock]

To begin with ...

(Several quotes from texts follow.)

Apologies Jay. For reasons so old I don't remember them, I dropped out of the forums just after I posted in this topic. Your answer was actually excellent and I wish I'd been around to acknowledge that.

From a Christian point of view it's very easy to see consistency between Judaism and Christianity, because Judaism is Christianity's history. The problem is that that consistancy relies on the premise that the Jews were wrong about Jesus Christ and that a mistaken conception of who the Messiah would be (and what he would be like) had developed over time.

It's clear that from the Jewish perspective (which you've presented in your various quotes) that Christianity presents unacceptable information about Jesus as Messiah and I can see why you would see the two religions as incompatible, and that premise I gave as incorrect or even arrogant. Thanks for the information and the clarity.

 

[Ronald]

this was in a previous thread and i just wanted to say a few words...

I personally don't think that Christianity is theologically consistent w/ judaism for some of the following reasons...
1)the concept of the Trinity (and i know not all christians are trinitarians but many are)-this goes against the concept of One indivisible Divine being
2)Jesus as the Messiah, or the son of G-d or G-d or anything intereprting him as nothing more than a dead 1st century jew (if as, Deut. points out, he existed at all but that's neither here nor there)
3)abandonment of the Mitzvot


AE admits that most jews probably wouldn't agree with christianity, considering it "blasphemy"...

but really...
is christianity theologically consistant with judaism?

Only those who love Israel and the ones who are returning to their Hebrew Roots.
Most of Christianity is SLOWLY LEARNING that it is not their mission to convert the Jew. But a great number of the crazy's post here on RF. Sad to say, but true.
God did not waste 4000 yrs. And he doesn't need any forced conversions. The NT and the Tanack say that the "Word of God" would go to a people who did not ask for it and then the Hebrews would become jealous of that people. Christianity has not caused any jealousy, only fear. But the time is coming when those who love Israel will cause a little jealousy.
Shalom