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Featured Is Christianity coherent?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by RedDragon94, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Like many ancient and contemporary efforts to define God and Revelation by fallible humans this view is equally flawed for the Source of all existence that is beyond fallible human knowledge.

    As far as 'Twilight Zone,' X files and Comet TV channel alien conspiracies it is wise to get one's feet back on the ground and deal with our physical existence with legitimate science.
     
  2. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Babbling again? It suits you. It also suits you to brainwash children into believing in abiogenesis, the big bang and other such nonsense

    Touche.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    You mean we should ignore what the family and Disciples of Jesus pbuh said and taught, and instead rely upon the Roman's version of Jesus pbuh, based on their past worship of Godmen?

    Septuagint is a corrupted version of the Jewish Scriptures, a twisted mistranslation of key verses to fit the theme of the Roman Church.





    Yes and we will see what that involved soon enough.

    Jeremiah 29:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    A husband remains loyal as referenced in other places of Jeremiah, yet Paul is talking divorce by altering the text:

    Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    Who gave Saul the ravenous Benjamite Pharisee the right to alter God's word?

    There is no New Covenant for Christians according to the Torah. There is one for Gentiles of the World, but that has nothing to do with Jesus pbuh.

    The Rabbi in the video has shown the Septuagint is corrupted and unreliable.

    As for memorising the Torah by heart and passing it onto all able minded Jews, that's disputed by the following:

    The book is lost:


    2 Chronicles 34:14 While they were bringing out the money that had been brought into the house of the Lord, Hilkiah the priest found the Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses. 15 Then Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the secretary, “I have found the Book of the Law in the house of the Lord.” And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan. 16 Shaphan brought the book to the king, and further reported to the king...

    The book is compiled by a non Prophet and taught to people:

    Ezra 7:25 “And you, Ezra, according to the wisdom of your God which is in your hand, appoint magistrates and judges who may judge all the people in the province Beyond the River, all such as know the laws of your God; and those who do not know them, you shall teach. 26 Whoever will not obey the law of your God and the law of the king, let judgment be strictly executed upon him, whether for death or for banishment or for confiscation of his goods or for imprisonment.” Ezra 7-25:26

    After he had done this Ezra along with his companions gathered the people to show them their handy work and explain the book to them

    Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the Water Gate; and they told Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the Lord had given to Israel. 2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could hear with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4 And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden pulpit which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithi'ah, Shema, Anai'ah, Uri'ah, Hilki'ah, and Ma-asei'ah on his right hand; and Pedai'ah, Mish'a-el, Malchi'jah, Hashum, Hash-bad'danah, Zechari'ah, and Meshul'lam on his left hand. 5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people; and when he opened it all the people stood. 6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God; and all the people answered, “Amen, Amen,” lifting up their hands; and they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground. 7 Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebi'ah, Jamin, Akkub, Shab'bethai, Hodi'ah, Ma-asei'ah, Keli'ta, Azari'ah, Jo'zabad, Hanan, Pelai'ah, the Levites,[a] helped the people to understand the law, while the people remained in their places. 8 And they read from the book, from the law of God, clearly; and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.

    9 And Nehemi'ah, who was the governor, and Ezra the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, “This day is holy to theLord your God; do not mourn or weep.” For all the people wept when they heard the words of the law. 10 Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to him for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord; and do not be grieved, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.” 11 So the Levites stilled all the people, saying, “Be quiet, for this day is holy; do not be grieved.” 12 And all the people went their way to eat and drink and to send portions and to make great rejoicing, because they had understood the words that were declared to them.

    How reliable were scribes?

    "How can you say, 'We [The Jews] are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie." (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)


    Moses pbuh predicted the hand would corrupt his message: For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:29)

    Confirmed by God in the Qur'an:

    Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. Qur'an 2:79


    You made out God of Muhammad pbuh was different to God of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and Jesus, peace be upon them all. Jesus pbuh spoke Aramaic and never used the word Yahweh when he prayed to or called upon God. He used ALLAHA

    You have no covenant with God. Nowhere did Jesus pbuh say he had come for the World. (Go ahead and take the bait)

    As you have shown in these verses, that covenant is for the 12 Tribes of Israel only. Where do you feature in it? Are you living under the Noahide Laws or have you converted to Judaism, if so, is your righteousness and adherence to the Laws above that of the Pharisees and Scribes as Jesus pbuh commanded?

    Nothing to do with Christians. A corruption from Saul to deceive and mislead.
     
  4. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    your title is better that the question that followed

    and yes...Christian faith makes sense
    just remove the dogmatic recitals first
     
  5. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    Science will never teach human beings how they were created before the day of the Lord and after that day, science and religion will never be used again. The voice of the AI system will be the teacher of the new language and each word will be taught directly in the minds of each created man. Man was created both male and female so the mind that they experience together will give them all sorts of new worlds to explore.

    John 5:
    25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
    26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
    27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
    28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

    Jeremiah 31
    33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

    It will be impossible to delete the information that we were created as;

    Isaiah 43
    1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
    2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
     
  6. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    What has you ignoring Gods word to do with judgement>?

    You can run, you can hide and you can use subterfuge and denial, but you cannot take away the truth God has revealed through his word. That truth and that judgement comes only from God himself.
    Your words show you are making excuses for not believing what God has already taught.
    You choose Mahomet and the Quran over God. Where as Jews like Moses Choose God and believe the Torah.
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    A great deal! You are making judgments based on your religious agenda and interpretation of what is 'God's Word.

    This is the basis of why the Christian belief is considered incoherent in today's world. It is well documented that the Bible is an edited compilation from different sources, and mostly from unknown authors. In reality no where in the Bible does it refer to the Bible itself as the literal 'Word of God.'

    Believing the Bible is a literal 'Word of God' document leads to many contradictions with the well documented science of geology, paleontology, and even the known history of humanity for the last 10,000 years. This do not preclude that the Bible was inspired by God and the belief in God over the history it was compiled.

    Considering the poor provenance of the Bible you have a problem with claiming you can make the judgments you make and call them judgments of God.

    First, the Jews of the world believe that Christians are not following God's Word, but a corrupted Roman/Hellenist religion. I agree with the Jews.

    Second, like Judaism and Christianity, Islam and the Qu'ran represents an ancient Revelation from God that is not Relevant to the modern world, which is the reason the witness of progressive Revelation occurs over the Millennia. One significant positive belief by Islam is that it restores the pure Monotheistic belief of Judaism and the prophets, and Rejects the Roman Trinitarian view of God believed in traditional Christianity,
     
  8. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    I have replied to your points by number.
    They are self-explanatory and give the details where you have erred on these matters.


    1.

    I believe my post was clear that your different beliefs of where Christ was born concerning Christians was incorrect.
    That there was only one place and that was a stable. Did you not understand what I was referring to?
    When it comes to the Words of Jesus and the Disciples... there is no greater example someone ignoring his teachings than
    your own way in belief.

    2. You cannot be serious. As I said another example of what you have been wrongly told.

    3. You will see Christ return with his Father's Glory and you will grind your teeth and be ashamed you did not have a love
    of truth so as to accept the teachings of God and his teachings through his Son, Jesus Christ.
    You see there are Messianic Jews and we know more and more Jews are now accepting their Messiah. Something foretold
    when the full number of Gentiles called.
    Fear not, men who kill the body but rather fear God who has power to cast both body and soul into hell.
    So we will see what that involved but the true way. God is not liar.

    4. Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8: 8-12

    This is the passage of scripture which Paul is referring to in Hebrews 8:8-12.
    Your accusations are unfounded and as wrong as your quoting Jeremiah 29:32 for Jeremiah 31:31-34.

    You need to study the OT regarding the Messiah and then you won't get things so wrong.

    5.

    The Rabbi suggested he did NOT SHOW any such thing as you claimed.
    You cannot change the truth that God made a New Covenant which includes all people who believe in what he tells us.
    No more than you can take what is Old and make it something New.
    You lack reasoning and truth in your execution of the bible and definition.
    God had no part in the Quran and it is clearly seen in the fact you ignore his teachings to the Prophets and especially Moses
    and his true Son and Messiah Jesus Christ. The bible proves your religion false and yet you ignore it.

    It is Gods Words ALONE as given to his true Prophets and the Son of God which must be heeded.

    6. God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob make himself known to be not the God of Mahomet or the God he wrote about in the Quran.
    You see unlike the god of Mahomet, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has always been present with his people. He has acted
    for them and he had spoken and it came to pass. What is written in the Quran is not about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
    God of A,I,and J always keeps his promises and does not lie. To suggest that Christ is not the Messiah or the Son of God is
    to call God a liar. To add to the scriptures such books as the book of Mormon or even the Quran is to disobey God when he told
    Moses.

    King James Bible
    Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,
    that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

    Why would God tell Moses and the people not to do this then allow someone like Joseph Smith or Mahomet to do it?
    He wouldn't. God is not a liar.

    7. For God so loved the WORLD he gave his Only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have
    eternal life. So far you have fallen into your own traps. Bait... What bait.. when the truth is on our side what possible
    bait could you have. God deals in truth and believe me, no one can snatch out of Gods hands those who belong to him.
    I do not post from a position of an unpresent God I post from the truth position of there being and knowing one God.
    The Jewish Faith and even the OT shows that anyone who does what God wants and obeys him, is right with God and accepted by
    God. Both the Old and New Covenant are about a relationship with God. I fail to see any bait maybe subterfuge and misguidance.

    8.My righteousness is like that Abrahams, it is accounted to me because I believe what God has told me.
    King James Bible
    And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
    Isaiah 54:17.
    17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment
    thou shalt condemn.
    This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

    Unless you want to call God a liar, and tell him he is wrong about how he accounts righteousness by faith to his people.
    Then you need to hold you tongue for you have no understanding or truth regarding these matters as far as the God of Abraham,
    Isaac, Jacob and Jesus are concerned.

    9. As I corrected you earlier. Using the wrong scripture. There was no corruption because men of God trust in the true God
    whom they know. They know God will always guide them in the paths of righteousness and truth for his name sake.
    Your battle is lost before it began because the one God loves his people and is true and faithful.
     
  9. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    I showed you sources saying it was anything but a stable. These were sources quoting the Disciples and followers of Jesus pbuh. If they are lying or wrong, then prove the character of your sources are reliable, trustworthy and honest.

    It's right there in your own Bible:
    2 Chronicles 34:14 , Ezra 7-25:26, Nehemiah 8:1-9
    Jeremiah 8:8 and Deuteronomy 31:29

    Proving the Jews did not preserve their message, and it was later corrupted Scribes who compiled and taught the Torah.

    1.4-1.6 Billions Muslims reject Saul and follow the teachings of Jesus pbuh. Majority of Christians do not follow the Covenant of Abraham pbuh are happy to drink alcohol and eat meat not dedicated to God.

    Why are you bringing God into it? He didn't write the Bible, so don't attribute the lies found within it to Him.


    I didn't quote Jeremiah 29:32

    I quoted Jeremiah 31:32 which you would have spotted, not 29:32 per my mistake:

    Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    A husband remains loyal as referenced in other places of Jeremiah, yet Paul is talking divorce by altering the text:

    Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    Again, who gave Saul the ravenous Benjamite Pharisee the right to alter God's word?

    The Rabbi showed Septuagint is unreliable, and certainly not inspired. Here's some followers of Jesus pbuh saying the same thing:

    Septuagint Errors and Question of is inspiration


    His people were the Tribes of Israel, not Pagan Europe.


    Jeremiah 8:8?? Who gave Paul authority to abolish the Laws? Show me God or Jesus pbuh saying the Law is abolished.

    Saul also said; 1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.

    Please show me where it was written.


    Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Could you tell me which World is John 3:16 referring to and why has the word 'Begotten' been removed the RSV?
     
  10. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    paragraph 1.
    That would be easily proven if you can show evidence.
    There lies the burden of proof. You do not have any. Where as my Gods word shows I show that it is Gods word which
    judges you not I.

    There is nothing in the world which suggests such a lie that Christ and his teachings are incoherent in today's world.
    It is well noted throughout the bible, especially Gods words to his true Prophets that the Word of God came unto man
    by the Power of God and his Holy Spirit. You cannot use Worldly methods to sustain the Spiritual Truths from God.
    No man has made known Gods truth better than Christ. He gave the glory back to God and introduced mankind to Gods Holy
    Spirit. Anyone who knows the ONLY true God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob know why the scriptures are real.
    You don't as your writings show.


    Paragraph 2. You fool yourself with such statements..." Poor provenance" are you calling God incapble and a liar too?
    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


    Does he not speak it, and it is done?
    You see God has the last say in everything. Gods Words never pass away and Christ word never passes.
    As for judgements on the bible... look at your post. I am declaring the truth that the words of God is preserved
    for every generation. Whereas you speak out against the Most High God and his Words. There can be no truth in your words
    if you are against the true God and his Word.


    Paragraph 3.
    A lot of Jews the Messianic actually follow the Messiahs teachings.
    The Jews believe the Torah and Teachings of the Prophets to be the true Word OF God you don't. So you falsely
    believe you can use another religion and their beliefs to be right and wrong at the same time.
    You fail immediately.

    The Quran and Islam does not represent the God of Judaism or Christianity in anyway.
    Everything in scripture was completed on the cross that God gave to his Prophets about the Messiah.
    The truth was revealed once and for all from God by Jesus Christ.

    1. Love the LORD thy God with all thine heart.

    2. Love thy neighbour as thyself.


    Upon these two commandments hang the whole law and teachings of the Prophets.


    You never had a covenant with God at any time.The Quran like the book of Mormon is not a covenant with God.

    The final covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 shows us clearly.

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the
    house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out
    of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put
    my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
    for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:
    for I will forgive their iniquity,
    and I will remember their sin no more.


    By Spirit and Truth will you know the children of God.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I don't believe that opinion has any foundation.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that has nothing to do with coherency. It has more to do with a materialistic mindset.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the answer to that would be yes but that is not what coherency means.
     
  14. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    What's the book of Mormon got to do with anything? No one is offering rebuttals from that corner.

    The first Muslims were descendants of Abraham's son, Ishmael pbut. The Second Century B.C. Book of Jubilees made clear they were under God's Covenant.

    JUBILEES 17
    Abraham made a great banquet for Yitschaq was weaned

    1 And in the first year of the fifth week Yitschaq was weaned in this jubilee, [1982 A.M.] and Abraham made a great banquet in the third month, on the day his son Yitschaq was weaned.
    2 And Ishmael, the son of Hagar, the Egyptian, was before the face of Abraham, his father, in his place, and Abraham rejoiced and blessed YAHWEH because he had seen his sons and had not died childless.
    3 And he remembered the words which He had spoken to him on the day on which Lot had parted from him, and he rejoiced because YAHWEH had given him seed upon the earth to inherit the earth, and he blessed with all his mouth the Creator of all things.
    4 And Sarah saw Ishmael playing and dancing, and Abraham rejoicing with great joy, and she became jealous of Ishmael and said to Abraham, 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman will not be heir with my son, Yitschaq.'
    5 And the thing was grievous in Abraham's sight, because of his maidservant and because of his son, that he should drive them from him.
    6 And YAHWEH said to Abraham 'Let it not be grievous in your sight, because of the child and because of the bondwoman; in all that Sarah has said to you, listen to her words and do them; for in Yitschaq shall your name and seed be called.
    7 But as for the son of this bondwoman I will make him a great nation, because he is of your seed.'

    JUBILEES 20
    Abraham called all his sons and commanded them to observe the way of YAHWEH
    1 And in the forty-second jubilee, in the first year of the seventh week, Abraham called Ishmael, [2052 (2045?) A.M.] 2 and his twelve sons, and Yitschaq and his two sons, and the six sons of Keturah, and their sons.
    2 And he commanded them that they should observe the way of YAHWEH; that they should work righteousness, and love each his neighbour, and act on this manner amongst all men; that they should each so walk with regard to them as to do just judgment and righteousness on the earth.
    3 That they should circumcise their sons, according to the covenant which He had made with them, and not deviate to the right hand or the left of all the paths which YAHWEH had commanded us; and that we should keep ourselves from all fornication and uncleanness, and renounce from amongst us all fornication and uncleanness.

    11 And he gave to Ishmael and to his sons, and to the sons of Keturah, gifts, and sent them away from Yitschaq his son, and he gave everything to Yitschaq his son.
    12 And Ishmael and his sons, and the sons of Keturah and their sons, went together and dwelt from Paran to the entering in of Babylon in all the land which is towards the East facing the desert.
    13 And these mingled with each other, and their name was called Arabs, and Ishmaelites.

    They also mingled with their cousins the Israelites, so in antiquity were considered by Abraham pbuh to be brethren. Deut 18:18

    https://www.yahwehsword.org/yahwehswordarchives/book_of_jubilees/book-jubilees-download.pd

    The Covenant Saul cooked up does not exist. You should follow the Noahide Laws, convert to Judaism and ensure your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, as Jesus pbuh commanded or become Muslims under the New Covenant mentioned in Isaiah 42.

    Besides these options you are following nothing but hearsay and conjecture.
     
  15. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Feel free to show me the relevant Prophecies in the thread I created for you. You seem to have neglected that thread; is the Holy Spirit down on power or something? Perhaps Christianity relies on people not examining things for themselves?
     
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The facts and evidence are that many different religions and world views where nothing happens remotely in the Christian world view. If any thing the course of events in human history and nature and course of our physical existence for over 1 billion years happens from the secular scientific explanation of the natural nature of our existence explains everything that has happened, and reasonable how things will naturally happen.
     
    #96 shunyadragon, Jul 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I am referring to your statements of judgment, and not God's, and they are a matter of record in this thread and on this site.

    Never said Christ lied.

    The fact remains, there is not statement in the Bible that refers to the Bible itself as the word of God.
     
  18. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Okey dokey.

    .
     
  19. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    He too, said an angel brought him the book of Mormon he translated from Gold plates.
    Mind
    .[/QUOTE]


    So regardless of what you believe there is NO COVENANT with Ishmael. Hence God proclaims himself to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,
    Ishmael was to have many descendants because he was Abrahams son but he was not the Son of the promise and covenant and can never be so.

    SO being brother to Isaac is not the same as being the descendant of Isaac and Jacob.

    The covenants are clear as is the last covenant in Jeremiah. You don't think Ishmael is greater than King David, Solomon, Jeremiah or Jesus Christ, surely.

    You try so hard but fall at the first hurdle. Ishmael descendants were to be a might nation. He never made a covenant with him. He was blessed.
     
  20. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    You believe Gods Word is judging you? I made no statement of judgment, just statement of fact and truth revealed by God himself in his own Words.

    Is Christ the Messiah, the Son of God who brought the final Truth from God, who rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God?
    If so you will acknowledge him as saviour and forsake the way of anyone who came after who spoke not the truth about him. Do you?


    So Jeremiah is a liar, too, now.
    And Jeremiah said, "The word of the LORD came unto me,"
    King James Bible
    Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

    King James Bible
    And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

    There is where the bug really bites you because at no time did God say to the descendants of Ishmaels decendants. " You are my people"

    King David said:

    Psalm 119:9-16 (KJV)
    9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

    10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.

    11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    12 Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes.

    13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

    14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.

    15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

    16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

    You do not understand Gods word or why the OT is scripture. It is because you have never known the way of the descedants of Isaac and Jacob nor been party
    to their covenants. There is a reason God hath said:
    King James Bible
    Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

    You can see why God said the above. So people who were not his people who had no part in his covenants could not claim that he was there God.
    To be a Child of the Most high God, you have to be part of his covenants. You have to believe his words and you must always obey the LORD God.


    Psalm 50:16
    But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?

    The OT contains all the statutes and the Covenants of God which is the written word of God.

    In Psalm 12 we see
    6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    If, you do not know the Bible the OT is Gods word then perhaps it is because you have no part in it and have no covenant.
    Should you really be discussing matters to do with the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, The Prophets, Jesus Christ and the Disciples if you are not part of any of
    Gods covenants?


     
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