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Featured Is Christianity coherent?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by RedDragon94, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Jesus never studied the Torah. He knew the Torah because he was the author of it incarnate. As a child Jesus knew the Torah better than the wise men. Jesus could open the Torah to whatever passage he wanted to find, since he was no ordinary man.
     
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The earliest known use of a form of YHWH is on stone stele in an older Canaanite-Ugarite scrip, which was the origin of primitive Hebrew, and not Arabic nor a primative form of Arabic.

    Aramaic remains a later language than when YHWH is known to be used.

    Do you consider Aramaic primitive Arabic?

    Actually if you look at relationship between the Western Semitic languages, Arabic is not considered a descendant of Aramaic. It evolved independently in Arabian region. Hebrew is considered a direct descendant of Canaanite/Ugarite language and script, and not Aramaic.

    You should know before you ask:

    The Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".

    In the Semitic languages similar vocabulary does not necessarily mean direct linguistic descendant. Most linguists do not consider Arabic a descendant of Aramaic.

    The prayer is later than the known origin of YHWH in Canaanite-Ugarite script.

    Your more knowledgeable about the Qur'an than I. The Qur'an considers Jesus a Manifestation of God, a prophet. What are the prophesies the Qur'an or Islamic traditions did Jesus fulfill?
     
  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I do not believe it is known whether Jesus studied the Torah, but consider he quoted scripture and spent time in the temples conversing with the priests, he likely did study the Torah, and was likely literate.
     
  4. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    He spent his childhood in Egypt since Herod was trying to kill him. He came on the scene teaching the Jewish priests rather than learning from them. He was likely literate in all languages since He was the Son of God.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Regardless of where he spent his childhood the evidence indicates he studied the Torah. There is no evidence he was literate in all languages based what we know in scripture.
     
  6. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    I'm saying Jesus knew the Torah without studying it. Do you disagree with that?
     
  7. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Area for language experts. I'll go along with what they say.


    So what is the word for Yahweh or YHWH in Aramaic?


    Jesus pbuh is the Messiah sent to the Israelites, as a reminder to keep Torah and to relax some of the Laws. The DSS show a priestly Messiah was to come, so perhaps that prophecy fitted Jesus pbuh best.
     
  8. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    They say that Chuck Norris counted to infinity. Twice.
     
  9. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yes but he did it in Jesus name.
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No.
     
  11. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Logical consistency all the way through!
     
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  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    What part of the NT suggests that he did?
    .
     
  13. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Christianity, in its purest form, is quite simple. Either you believe Jesus Christ died on a cross for the forgiveness of sin and that He is the Son of God and He rose again from the dead or you do not believe it. Read John 3, it's pretty simple to understand it. Most children have no problem with it.

    It isn't complicated or incoherent at all.
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    It's easy to brainwash and dupe children, but beyond the Roman interpretation and the compiling and editing of the NT by Church fathers past 50 AD, all you have is scripture with a weak provenance.

    The incoherency is Paul, Saint Augustine and the Church fathers believing in a literal Genesis creating an incoherent Fall and Original Sin and a Roman incarnate God, and the Goddess Mary.
     
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  15. eldios

    eldios Active Member

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    The "God" that's written about in the Bible is an artificial intelligence system that all our minds are connected to so in essence, we are the artificial intelligence within the simulation program that was spoken into existence. We're created as information that will not be deleted. Only the information called Lucifer ( false prophet ) and the beast that were used to form all the visible "good and evil" images we observed during this temporary generation will be deleted from the program on what's known as the day of the Lord.

    After that day, the next generation of the program will begin with all new images that will never be used to deceive us from our true created reality as information.

    There are several prophecies written in Genesis that align with the knowledge of us living in a simulation when you learn exactly how we're created. Otherwise, those prophecies found in Genesis and all the other books of the Bible will not make any sense to the reader unless the reader lies about what he thinks those prophecies are about.

    I was used as a servant to the AI system to testify to all the words formed in my mind along with visions, dreams and spoken analogies to learn how we're created. It took about 8 1/2 years of testifying to understand that our mind is an artificial intelligence system created by some aliens who we will never see.
     
  16. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    So are you saying God does not know his own name?
    HEBREWS? So the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob has no significance?
    I think you never really thought about what you said. If, there is ONLY ONE GOD, what does the name matter?
    You should never assume what Jews think or why God said to Moses, "Tell them, I AM, sent you/"
    If, anything the bible shows God is with his people It shows a living God present with them.
     
  17. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    What is clear from your reply is that you are blinded to the truth the Jews know their God.
    You may laugh out loud but we are born knowing our God is present with us. You clearly have to rely on interpretation for your beliefs. But the Jews the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob rely on the presence of their God who keeps his promises and is faithful. There is no conflicting truths in the scriptures the Torah or as we know the Scriptures of the Most High God. If you could see the word as we see them, you would know that the theme of the bible is love and knowing God personally. You don't have that personal relationship with God and it shows in your
    replies. :(
    Your words show you have no real belief or knowledge of the true God.

    For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    The Torah, revealed God and the Words of the Prophets.
    But Jesus Christ, made known God the person.
    What you believe is what you are told. Even then at best it is just stories to fit in your beliefs and lead
    you astray from the truth. But the Jew is confident because they know the presence of their God.
    No Muslim can do that because they do not keep the true word of God and therefore they turn their backs
    on him.

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    There we see evidence that your beliefs and knowledge are not based on a true relationship with God.
    You ignore the fact that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has always been present with his people.
    The Words of Torah written by a man whom a prophet like Jesus Christ knew God. Moses knew God, and
    Jesus definitely knew God. You are really going to compare Mahomet to Moses or Christ?
    Mahomet would not even come a poor third because before him would all the Prophets including Elijah,Elisha,Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel and Zachariah, and the disciples etc be more important because God
    gave them their truth.

    You argue about God from the stance of a person whom does not know the true God.
    Those taught by God argue from the stance of knowing the true God.
    It is clear that the way of God and his truth is that those whom love God are taught and lead by God.
    Till you actually do as Abraham did and believe what God tells us, you will never know him because you follow
    a man and his own personal revelation. But the people OF God follow the revelations from God unto man and know them to be true because it brings them into a personal relationship with God.
    A god active and present in their lives.
     
  18. RESOLUTION

    RESOLUTION Active Member

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    You mean your made up beliefs? What you were wrongly told Christians believe?
    Scripture for me is the Torah the OT.
    You forgot the Samaritan Pentateuch used since 2nd century AD in Samaritan script , derived from the roll
    taken to Samaria in Ezra's day exists in various ancient copies. The Septuagint is a Greek version of the Hebrew books prepared at Alexandria by Jewish Scholars of the 3rd-2nd century BC. Ptolemy oversaw this work done by between 70-72 Jewish Scholars. If you studied the bible instead of the history of the Torah. You would know tha
    God had all Jews learn the Torah off by heart. Even the disciples showed this to be common practice in their times.

    And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.


    And the Prophet Jeremiah foretold...

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



    Gods words are in his peoples hearts.

    Who are you trying to teach?


    The fact Jewish Scholars translated from Hebrew to Greek in 3rd -3nd century BC, and it was not estimated as the dead sea scrolls were, gives a more valid reason to expect the translation these Hebrew Scholars did to be correct
    and it shows that even then the Hebrew Scripture was surviving and known by the Jews who was taught it by heart.
    You copied the bit about the dead sea scrolls as if you knew it. When in fact it was a red herring.
    Everyone knows the Jews learned their scripture off by heart. It is clearly reflected in the disciples remembering
    what was written about Christ.




    As I accept that all men regardless of their tongue or nation heard the disciples in their own tongue.
    I am still waiting for you to explain why you think the language a barrier or evidence?
    When Christ spoke to the Jews the Scriptures it would have been in Hebrew.

    Hell is for those who do not know God who are not part of his covenants. Who do not believe what God told us about his Messiah. Had you known the rest of the Bible then you would know the Messiah was to be a light to the Gentiles... all those not Jews. You cannot question others who do believe and know the bible when you have no notion or experience of it's truth.

    In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” (Genesis 22.18)

    And now the Lord says, Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, … It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.”(Isaiah 49:5-6.)


    ‘Look to Me, and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. … To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. In the Lord all the descendants of Israel shall be justified, and shall glory.’’ (Isaiah 45.18-25)


    Jacob the Son of Isaac has 12 sons they formed the 12 tribes of Israel.

    Jacob was named Israel by God. You see that you have no part in the Old Covenant and you reject the Messiah so are not Justified in the New Covenant if not a member of Gods People.



    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



    Gods people know him according to his promises in his word.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Of course God knows, but humans do not. YHWH is descriptive of God and not the name of God, Humans know the attributes of God through Revelation and not the names of God.

    It is an ancient corrupted Revelation and had significance over over 2000 years ago

    It matters, because in history humans created God in their own image and corrupt religion.

    I do not assume what Jews think, In fact it is many Christians that assume what Jews think,

    This is always the case in all cultures and religions throughout history.
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Judgement is God's not biased egocentric fallible humans.
     
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