Is Christian Mysticism Evil?

[sojourner]

And was Moses also a mystic applying ones incorrect yardstick?

Regards

Of course Moses was a mystic. He had direct experience of the Divine. That’s the definition of a mystic.

 

[sojourner]

No there is no a single scripture in all the bible that teaches mysticism which has it's origin in pagan teachings and the occult. It is not biblical. You have to go outside of the bible to learn about mysticism. This alone should tell you not to go there

You don’t interpret the Bible that way. But it’s there. Of course mysticism has its roots in paganism. Paganism is older than Judaism.

"Mysticism is the practice of religious ecstasies, together with whatever ideologies, ethics, rites, myths, legends, and magic may be related to them

Not always, and not necessarily. Mysticism is a much broader umbrella term than you realize. In Christian mysticism, contemplation leads to greater attention and awareness.

"Mysticism, the practice of religious ecstasies (religious experiences during alternate states of consciousness), together with whatever ideologies, ethics, rites, myths, legends, and magic may be related to them

The article speaks in very general terms, and does not describe Christian mysticism. Did you miss the definition I provided? It comes from a much more reliable source than Wikipedia.

As posted earlier it has its origins from the occult and is not biblical. The difference is that the occult knows what it is doing and retains knowledge and consciensness and mysticism does not

Again, contemplation and some forms of meditation focus the awareness, and bring knowledge. Does the Psalmist not say that he will meditate on God’s precepts daily? It is biblical.

This is not biblical and does not have it's origin in the scriptures or the teachings of JESUS and the bible

It’s origins are not biblical, but then, the origins of much of the OT stories are pagan.

None of what you have listed above is mysticism as defined earlier

“As defined” is an incorrect definition.

Leviticus 20:6 “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people

Christian mysticism doesn’t utilize either one.

Nonsense. Mysticism predates Christianity and was practiced in the old testament occult and pagan religions as shown in the scriptures already provided above

It was also practiced in OT Judaism.

Mysticism has roots in Shamanism

Everything has its roots in Shamanism. Shamanism is the earliest known religious practice.

Goodness I write this with all love and genuine concern

You write it from a position of ignorance and fear.

 

[sojourner]

Really? Never practiced Rosary beads in the Catholic Church? Read the definitions already provided above your post

What in the world does the Rosary have to do with mysticism? The definitions provided are the wrong definitions.

. I have discussed it in detail here

You’ve splattered the forum with meaningless misunderstanding, using incorrect definitions that don’t define what you think they define.

Trust me

Isn’t that what the Serpent said to Eve? Just sayin’...

I have already demonstrated this through the scriptures and outside of the scriptures quoting many difference sources

What you’ve demonstrated is your complete lack of understanding.

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course Moses was a mystic. He had direct experience of the Divine. That’s the definition of a mystic.

Whatever the definitions later people make, Moses never made any claim to mysticism. Did Moses, please?

Regards

 

[sojourner]

Look all your post shows is that you have not read anything that has posted to you

You haven’t considered anything we’ve written. It’s like you’re sticking your fingers in your ears going LALALALALA I’M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!

You and your friends have not adressed any of the content in the posts provided to you except to deny and ignore it

Isn’t that what you’ve done?

Go off and practice your magic if you want to

Translation: “I’ve lost the argument; I’m taking my marbles and going home.

. You cannot prove mysticism through the bible and the scriptures as it is not biblical

Apparently, you can’t prove that it’s not biblical.

IMO

This, right here, is the only thing you’ve posted that’s not nonsense. ALL of what you posted is your opinion — and it is skewed.

Nonsense. Please demonstrate this from the scriptures

Joshua 1:8, Psalm 119:78 among others.

 

[sojourner]

Whatever the definitions later people make, Moses never made any claim to mysticism. Did Moses, please?

Regards

Most mystics don’t use that nomenclature. But that doesn’t mean they’re not mystics.

 

[paarsurrey]

Most mystics don’t use that nomenclature for themselves. The fact is that all three are depicted as having mystic experiences.

If they didn't claimed to be one, why fit them into mysticism, please?
Regards

 

[sojourner]

Actually I believe it means if the word of God condemns the things we do many will not come to the Word of God because men love to be in darkness rather then receive the correction of the scriptures or what God's Word condemns. If your thread here is promoting occult teachings why why try and teach things that are clearly not biblical?

Christian mysticism is a set of prayer forms. Are you asserting that there’s nothing about prayer in the Bible?

 

[sojourner]

If they didn't claimed to be one, why fit them into mysticism, please?
Regards

Heroes generally don’t claim to be heroes. Shall we not fit them into that role if they fit the definition?

 

[sojourner]

He is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. These are they that are blind and deaf

Better scrape the scales from your eyes and take your fingers out of your ears then.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hero’s generally don’t claim to be heroes. Shall we not fit them into that role if they fit the definition?

They (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad) were people who were engaged with the life fully and they shaped human history, please.

Regards

 

[sojourner]

Actually I believe I know more than you think. That is why you cannot respond to my questions I ask you.

You certainly haven’t shown that here. He has answered you; you’re not paying attention.

If you want a couple good examples of Christian mysticism, read Thomas Merton and Murray Bodo. Also Julian of Norwich.

 

[sojourner]

They (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad) were people who were engaged with the life fully and they shaped human history, please.

Regards

That’s what mysticism does: engages us fully in life.

 

[sojourner]

Sorry to say this but i don't see it as proof in the way you hoped. Do you know the real reason why there is so many different views of Christianity and Catholicism? Because man has changed the word that was there originally, So did the protestants in the time of Martin Luther too. So the teachings in the bible has been altered by man, and this confuses them until the teaching is no longer recognizable the way it was originally thought. So No i do not get surprised when i see so much difference even within the same church.

And other problem is that when the scripture is changed the truth of it falls away, because humans can not see the teaching they took away was very important from the beginning. If i am not mistaken it even says in the Bible. Do not remove or change a word of the holy bible. Because if the teaching is true, those words was true word from a God. And Gods do see the truth clear whereas human see truth though muddy glasses until they enlighten to the truth that was originally thought to the first disiples

I disagree. In fact, biblical scholarship shows us that the texts have changed very little. The phenomenon of different views is due to the nature of the texts themselves. The Bible has endured, not because it is true, but because it is multivalent.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I disagree. In fact, biblical scholarship shows us that the texts have changed very little. The phenomenon of different views is due to the nature of the texts themselves. The Bible has endured, not because it is true, but because it is multivalent.

One word that get changed is enough to make it more or less impossible to gain the result spiritual practice is all about. And there has been many people trying to interpret the bible and got it wrong. And in the later days now when clear guidance has been changed because followers disagree with what is written, They think something is unfair to them when it is a "rule" or guideline that go against what they want. Spiritual practice is not about what we want, but what is the truth, and until man understand the truth they will walk in the darkness.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

. Spiritual practice is not about what we want, but what is the truth, and until man understand the truth they will walk in the darkness.

I would argue it is less about what we want and more about what we need. In this case, truth refers to what symbols and associations are going to inspire us to meaning.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That’s what mysticism does: engages us fully in life.

I agree. Mysticism is a creative practice like any other art form, engaging us to seek and create meaning.

 

[sealchan]

I believe the God's Word and it says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. The only critical error IMO is someone that does not believe and follow God's Word as it is only in God's Word that any or us have God's salvation. You neglect God's Word I believe you are neglecting your own faith and salvation.

I appreciate that you care enough to point out to others where from your perspective they may be going wrong.

I am a Christian and I have a deep appreciation for the great spiritual truths that the Bible contains. That includes the Bible's literary craftsmanship, its myth which drew creative inspiration from existing beliefs and was spun into a unique narrative that was inspired by individual experience of God.

For me the truths of the Bible are like golden treasure discovered by individuals who went in search of such treasure. Now we all have that treasure to share.

But the searchers were all, at least in part, mystics who cultivated, in some form, a sense of God's being before, as and after they co-created the gold we now have to use for ourselves.

 

[sojourner]

One word that get changed is enough to make it more or less impossible to gain the result spiritual practice is all about. And there has been many people trying to interpret the bible and got it wrong. And in the later days now when clear guidance has been changed because followers disagree with what is written, They think something is unfair to them when it is a "rule" or guideline that go against what they want. Spiritual practice is not about what we want, but what is the truth, and until man understand the truth they will walk in the darkness.

You’re missing the point. “The truth” isn’t found in exact wording. Much of truth isn’t even found in language. The truth is found in what we bring to the texts — not in what we get out of the texts. The texts are largely inspirational and not instructional. Yes, there are many people who get interpretation wrong, but it’s because of what they bring to the texts: eisegesis and proof-texting, rather than exegesis and critical disciplines.

the Bible doesn’t put something exterior into us — it draws out something interior from inside of us.

 

[sojourner]

I’ve read the Christian mystics — everything from the desert fathers and mothers to Tom Cowan and J. Philip Newell. I don’t find anything remotely dangerous, or “satanic” — nor even anything remotely occult about them or their practices. Everything medical we know about the practice of meditation shows its health benefits.

In my considered opinion, which comes from many years of education, research, and practice, Christian mysticism offers us opportunity to immerse ourselves deeply and holistically in our spiritual walk. We engage the whole human experience — not just intellect and emotion, but most especially intuition and creativity. We plumb the depths of our soul. We move from the limits of our physical senses into the broader awareness of our spiritual dimension. Mysticism offers us the space to converse with the Divine in “sighs that are too deep for words.” It offers us vision that goes beyond what our physical eyes see.

This is who we are as spiritual beings. IMO, mysticism aids in discovering who — and whose — we are.