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Is Charity Duty?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by skills101, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    Do you believe that we have a duty, as humans, to give to our fellow man? To give to charity, where there's no concrete reward?

    As for me, I've never been in the business of charity. I believe that those who need charity got themselves into that position by themselves, and therefore, need to find their way out by themselves. I always say that if you want to become successful in America, there is always a way. There will always be that McDonald's down the street, and there will always be that one-room apartment to rent when you have the money, and there will always be the community college waiting for you to sign up.

    As a side comment, I believe that we are already being forced to give to charity. Part of the taxes we give goes to welfare, to the homeless whom I believe are there by choice. Do you agree that we should be forced to give to welfare?

    Whenever I pass through Los Angeles, I always see a few bums with a half-full beer in their hands, and I think "My money is going to him??" And then I see the single mother with four filthy-dressed children trailing behind her, and I think, "I can't believe I have to pay money to her, who made and continues to make all the wrong decisions in life."

    As Andrew Carnegie said, "And while the law of competition may be hard for the individual, it is best for the race, because it ensures the survival of the fittest in every department."
     
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  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Social Darwinism is a filthy distortion.
     
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  3. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    Is that not what America so valianty pariases? I don't know about you, but whenever I went to school, you would always see a quote posted in the classroom saying, "work hard with perseverance ad you will become successful," or anything along that line? Are we not a capitalist country, where the strongest live in luxory and the weakest work as weiters?
     
  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I agree with Deut on this one. Social Darwinism is not only a filthy distortion of evolution, but it is also a remarkably foolish view of how our own species has managed to survive.
     
  5. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    I'd suggest reading Nickel and Dimed... it's a book about a woman who left the middle class to work at minimum wage and see how she could get by. It's pretty interesting and eye-opening.

    Random sidenote: Did you know if the minimum wage had continued to climb like it had for the past 20 years or so, it would now be over $15 an hour?
     
  6. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Matthew 25:40 "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

    I think I will agree with God on this one. OK, OK, I always agree with God! So shoot me! :D
     
  7. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

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    You think the way you do because you have had some sort of example. Imagine someone who grows up around gangs, drug dealers and violence. Someone who has been beaten their whole lives, raped, etc....their thinking is very different.

    I think we should give charity...but to people that are truly qualified to receive it. We give too much charity to people who abuse it, that is the problem.
     
  8. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    I think it is our duty to help people. Not everyone has the same access to quality education and the like. Those of us who did have it are privileged.

    Poor people are not poor because they are lazy or do not want to succeed. I'm sure there are some lazy poor people out there, but there is SO much more to it than that.
     
  9. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    Everyone has choices, and it is their choice to get into gangs, drugs, and violence, or to work hard at life and become successful. Unfortunately, there are those who choose the first, and those are the people who get welfare checks every month. As for those who are abused as children, they always have the perrogative to knock on a counselor's door, and get some help.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I don't call that charity though. Charity is getting, what you described is earning.

    Sure, there are a ton of hardworking people out there who don't have the nicest homes, who aren't lazy... but like I said before, they just made bad decisions, and we should be the ones to pay for it? Hardly...
     
  10. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    I'd wager you're either being a complete ******* about this, or you don't know anyone who was abused by their parents. It isn't that simple, especially considering the crappy job that some child welfare agencies do.

    Let's do some math.

    Minimum wage is $5.15. Work days are supposed to be 8 hours, unless you work overtime. 7 x 8 = 56.

    56 x 5.15 x 4 = $1153.60

    That is IF you work every day of the week. If it was a five day week, it would be a mere $824. Considering the high cost of rent, the high cost of gas, the cost of food, the cost of pretty much every damn thing, that's not succeeding. That's scraping by.
     
  11. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    Perhaps you interpreted what I said as "abuse is easy to get through." If you did, I would never even hint at that idea. But it is the first step to getting your head out of the trauma.

    Would you suggest they sit in a room, keep quite, and live with the memories? Not a chance. I've read some works by Dr. Drew Pinsky, and listened to him on the radio, and he says the best thing for someone whose been abused by their parents is therapy. Perhaps you could explain what's better for someone in that situation.

    Perhaps you could explain how his correlates with my post? Or maybe you thought I was being sarcastic, which I was not. I merely explained that people who make good decisions with their life and work hard will become successful.

    I mean, it is not impossible to be successful from nothing if you look at it. Look at Bill Clinton, he came from a poor family and became an American president! Tom Leykis, who came from a New York shackhouse, and now he has a seven digit income. And of course, who can forget Andrew Carnegie? Foreign immigrant during the Industrial Revolution, and turned into arguably one of the most powerful men alive during that period. Did they get there by luck? No! They got there by working hard.
     
  12. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    This I agree with. The way you said it implied that these people are just sitting there, twiddling their thumbs as their parents beat them, not caring enough to get help.

    Rather, if they can get help. I've heard too many horror stories about child welfare services not getting a kid out of an abused home and the kid getting beat even worse.

    It relates because even if someone works their proverbial arse off at minimum wage in this day and age, they're not going to get anywhere. Not everyone's lucky enough to be born into a middle class family that can support them while they go through college, and not everyone is bright enough to get the now-elusive grants and scholarships, and not everyone can devote their time to studying.

    You're ignoring that not everyone is an amazingly intelligent or resourceful person. Not everyone can do this. Hard work just doesn't cut it in this day and age. Not in America, anyway.
     
  13. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    No, but everyone has the ability to go to school and work their asses off. In a class I took for college, a classmate told me he grew up in a black community without much money, surrounded by violence, and that it was a difficult life. But he now has no regrets about the choices he made (other than smoking), because he wass on the path, I could see, to make a name out of himself.

    None of those examples were born intelligent or resourceful. They were born into a poor lifestyle. They took that life, they went to school, they worked their asses off, and they got to high places.
     
  14. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    No they don't. If it comes between making As and dropping out of school to work so that your family can keep their house and eat, it's going to be dropping out.

    I'd say a stupid man can't become president, but I'd be wrong.
     
  15. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    BWAHAHA... maybe we should start a thread about "Devolution: What's wrong with a monkey in the WhiteHouse???"
     
  16. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    You do have a point, most people would make that decision. But you still have the choice. You're parents cannot legally drop you out of school if it is against your will. They cannot force you to get a job. Not to mention that in most states, it's illegal now to drop out of school until you're 18. You don't HAVE to do anything. If a child is at the point where they're starving or homeless, it is then his or her prerogative to get in foster care, where you will at least have the ability to sleep on a bed, have a plate of food on the table, get an education, and not completely screw up your life.
     
  17. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    Educational inequity is no small matter.
     
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  18. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Maybe they can't do it against your will, but they can pressure you and guilt you into it. Anyone with ethics would get a job when they're family was facing eviction and hunger.

    And while it is true that they can go into foster care, most people want to stay with their family. This isn't a "wrong" choice.

    And in Georgia at least you can drop out very young (14 if my memory serves me correctly) if your parents agree to it.
     
  19. skills101

    skills101 Vicar of Christ

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    That, of course, is a personal decision. You obviously would get out of school to work. For me, it comes down to the principles of being a parent. Personally, I'd starve to see my children go to college. I think that any parent who doesn't strive to have their kids be better than them is just selfish.

    By the way, even though this is off-topic, I'd like to point out how much it angers me to see these families even exist. Once again, you do not want your child to have a good life if you have a kid before you can prevent a situation like that. You are not only ruining your life, but an innocent kid's life as well. It's called being selfish, raising a kid only for your "fullfilment of womanhood." If I were holding any kind of political power, I'd move to have a law to have children with the requirements that: you hold a healthy relationship (not necessarily married) with a loyal partner, you make at least 35,000 dollars a year, and you can prove that you can be able to house this child, feed them, and clothe them.

    I only made that statement to prove that there is ALWAYS a path to success, and I'm not saying this isn't an ugly path, but the way I see it, it's much better than working 8 hours a day, 6 days a week.
     
  20. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    So what of people who make one "wrong" decision in their life (say, dropping out of school to support their family)? Should they be kicked to the curb and be told its their own damn fault and they have no business asking us for help?
     
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