Is Buddhism a Religion?

[Dawnofhope]

Why did Japan force every place they went into humiliation?! They made every place bow to every soldier who represents a God, Hirohito, they made everyone other religions too, worship at Shinto Shrines, or pay respects to a religion. Its completely against the way most of these easterners want to spin religion there as so peaceful or at least considerate, or intellectual.

What you say sounds remarkably like the type of spin Christians use to address the less attractive parts of its history. Projection?

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

 

[Howard Is]

Well that's easy - if a Buddhist says Buddhism is a religion that person's Buddhism is a religion, if a Buddhist says Buddhism is not a religion then that person's Buddhism is not a religion.

Absolutely correct.

Is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy a religion ?
Is the therapist a guru ?

Is Norman Vincent Peel an avatar ?

Gautama taught mindfulness and CBT, primarily, IMO. He eschewed beliefs, and taught that nirvana is the absence of craving and aversion.

Of course for many, it is a religion in every sense of the word. For those people, nirvana means heaven, and Buddha is God.

But then, the US has a religious cult who live in trailer parks watching movies and TV, because they believe that’s how God speaks. So is TV a religion ? Yes. For some.

 

[siti]

I'm not insisting on anything other than Buddhism as practiced in some places in the world is theistic. I wouldn't infer Guatama Buddha taught theism on that basis alone. However we shouldn't assume Buddha was an atheist either based on how Buddhism has evolved in the West.

I have no idea whether Buddha was a theist or an atheist - but since the most reliably transmitted idea in Buddhism seems to be along the lines of "Dhamma's the best thing for people, In this life and the next as well." (Agganna Sutta) - I think it is fairly safe to conclude that both theism and religion are non-essential in Buddhism even if a lot of Buddhists do make room for them. Dhamma is the essence - religion and belief in deities are optional - and quite possibly contraindicated (if I might abuse a medical term) if genuine enlightenment is the goal.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have no idea whether Buddha was a theist or an atheist - but since the most reliably transmitted idea in Buddhism seems to be along the lines of "Dhamma's the best thing for people, In this life and the next as well." (Agganna Sutta) - I think it is fairly safe to conclude that both theism and religion are non-essential in Buddhism even if a lot of Buddhists do make room for them. Dhamma is the essence - religion and belief in deities are optional - and quite possibly contraindicated (if I might abuse a medical term) if genuine enlightenment is the goal.

We can agree that Buddha was very wise and practical. Buddhism is a good option for theists and non-theists. I have little interest in arguing the types of "how many angels on the tip of a pinhead?" questions that have plagued religion.

 

[Howard Is]

We can agree that Buddha was very wise and practical. Buddhism is a good option for theists and non-theists. I have little interest in arguing the types of "how many angels on the tip of a pinhead?" questions that have plagued religion.

In many respects Buddhism was an antidote to that kind of thinking. Read the various Hindu posts about dvaita vs advaita, what is Brahman, etc, and you’ll see what I mean.

Buddhism is not predicated on any theological or cosmological proposition, and requires no belief. In fact Buddha specifically refuted the value of pretty much all and any such propositions.

In many respects, Buddhism is scientific. The practice begins wth a hypothesis- the Four Noble Truths, and then a repeatable experiment - the Eightfold Path. Buddha made this clear by saying we should not believe anyone, even him, unless both our experience and reason confirm what he said.

He went further, metaphorically referring to wisdom as a cake, saying that hunger could not be satisfied with a picture of a cake. Meaning - our finely wrought speculations and beliefs are merely a reference to something, not the something itself.

Regarding theological and cosmological propositions, he said they were pointless indulgences in the inconceivable, and of no use in finding the peace of nirvana.

 

[Howard Is]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

There are various branches, more accurately derivatives, of Buddhism which are definitely religious. I could invent another one today if you like. There’s a big demographic ready for this year’s Secret.

 

[siti]

We can agree that Buddha was very wise and practical. Buddhism is a good option for theists and non-theists. I have little interest in arguing the types of "how many angels on the tip of a pinhead?" questions that have plagued religion.

Yes - I'm OK with that - Buddhism seems, in essence - to reject theology. My reading of some translations of Buddhist texts, suggests to me that it also rejects belief - as in belief in deities, creator(s) and especially 'priests' - as 'intercessors' between the ultimate reality and the mundane world - all that seems to me to constitute a fairly round rejection of most of theism. It is not a nit-picking theological variation, its an out and out rejection.

 

[Laika]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

If not, then why not? If your reasoning is that this or that branch of Buddhism fails to worship gods, then why is it necessary to worship gods before something is a religion? Do you have a solid reason for saying it is necessary to worship gods before something can be considered a religionn? Or are you just messing with us?

If you define religion as belief in the supernatural:

a) buddhism can be described as a religion;

b) most secular atheists would not be religious as they adhere to naturalistic interpretations of nature and society;

The tendency to describe atheism as “religious” is usually implicitly based on the assumption that naturalistic understandings of the world (typically including those of science) are based on “faith” rather than knowledge.

 

[Howard Is]

If you define religion as belief in the supernatural:

a) buddhism can be described as a religion;

How so ?

 

[Laika]

How so ?

Reincarnation/ the cycle of death and rebirth.
Belief in Karma in some school of buddhism.

That might not apply to all forms of buddhism (especially the secular variety) but its a start.

 

[blü 2]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

If not, then why not? If your reasoning is that this or that branch of Buddhism fails to worship gods, then why is it necessary to worship gods before something is a religion? Do you have a solid reason for saying it is necessary to worship gods before something can be considered a religionn? Or are you just messing with us?

Buddhism as practiced in Thailand and Sri Lanka, the only two Buddhist countries I know at first hand, looks very much like a religion to me. It has places of assembly, services, rites, prayers, the expectation of donations, holy places, holy leaders (nearly all male), places where you pray for special things like conception or safe childbirth, a form of fortune-telling by choosing from a mass of sticks, and, at least in Sri Lanka, shrines alongside shrines to Hindu gods, as if it were one end of a spectrum.

It bears little resemblance to the Buddhism practiced by my Buddhist friend and regular lunching companion, whose form of Buddhism involves no gods.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Want to do a fun, fun, fun thought experiment my fashioned-challenged friend?

If so...

List all the traits or characteristics of Buddhism that are basically religious traits or characteristics. e.g. clergy, temples, holy or sacred scriptures, monks and nuns, etc, etc.

Now list all the traits or characteristics of Buddhism that are basically reasons for believing Buddhism is not a religion. e.g. worship and/or belief in deity is optional, rather than required. Plus what else?

Which list is longer? How much longer is it?

Didn't have time to do this last night or this morning. Sounds like a weekend experiment. I'll circle back around on this over the weekend.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

If not, then why not? If your reasoning is that this or that branch of Buddhism fails to worship gods, then why is it necessary to worship gods before something is a religion? Do you have a solid reason for saying it is necessary to worship gods before something can be considered a religionn? Or are you just messing with us?

Buddhism as we see it today, is not how buddha Sakyamuni meant it to be. When he was here his teaching was a cultivation path, not a religion.
So no it is not a religion

 

[Desert Snake]

dont know if its a religion, nor care to quantify it

 

[Glaurung]

Yes, of course. It's basically just Westerners that push the inane argument that it isn't a religion because of our Abrahamic lenses we're viewing it through.

The religious nature of Buddhism is obvious even under an Abrahamic lens. The issue as I see it has more to do with the way Buddhism has been marketed in the west. Many have been convinced that a monastic tradition predicated on the existence of rebirth and its escape is somehow a purely naturalistic philosophy devoid of faith based claims.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I reckon Buddhism is a religion for religious Buddhists and not a religion for non-religious Buddhists.

Are there non-religious Buddhists?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

If not, then why not? If your reasoning is that this or that branch of Buddhism fails to worship gods, then why is it necessary to worship gods before something is a religion? Do you have a solid reason for saying it is necessary to worship gods before something can be considered a religionn? Or are you just messing with us?

I think of Buddhism as a religion.

... though I'm open to the idea that Buddhism is a group of religions.

 

[Twilight Hue]

dont know if its a religion, nor care to quantify it

Just hit yourself with a stick after lighting the incense and then call it a day. ;0)

 

[Vinayaka]

Why would a non-religion want to build a house of worship?

Yes, I see my wording was off. What I meant was that if the local government determined that somebody wasn't a religion, yet that group claimed it was, it wouldn't be able to access that land, or grants. In India there are defined 'minority religions' that can get grants that Hindus can't. Hindu priests here in Canada, for a long time, couldn't legally sign for a marriage, whereas Christian ministers could.

 

[firedragon]

Are any of the various Buddhisms -- or "branches of Buddhism" -- a religion?

If not, then why not? If your reasoning is that this or that branch of Buddhism fails to worship gods, then why is it necessary to worship gods before something is a religion? Do you have a solid reason for saying it is necessary to worship gods before something can be considered a religionn? Or are you just messing with us?

I think you have defined religion as "God believing" or something to that nature.

Thats not what it means. Religion means a binding in its essence. Thus, many things are religions. Its just that some are hellbent on denying it.