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Featured Is Bible literal young earth Christian fundamentalism turning people away from God?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ERLOS, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    It denotes the descent of the Spiritual (kether) into the first male principle chockma (adam) and the division of Adam to give existence to eve (binah). The consequent descent. Coats of skin, etc.

    IMO.
     
    #141 ERLOS, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    What I showed is there is not any evidence of the Hebrew written language before ~1,000 BCE, and the earliest known text from the Tanakh are the silver scrolls. We have no archaeological evidence of anything else, nothing to conclude that Moses was the author, nor whehter it was written near the time of Moses.

    You have not provided any archaeological evidence that the Hebrew version was copied by others. The archaeological evidence demonstrates that the Hebrews adopted and copied the Creation myths in Genesis from Canaanite, Ugarit, Babylonian, and the earliest Sumarian cuneiform tablets.
     
    #142 shunyadragon, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Oh.

    Well, why didn't you say so.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    What would be sufficient evidence that Moses completed the book of Genesis at about 1513 B.C.E.? And more importantly, does the absence of evidence discovered imply that something doesn't exist. For example, there is absolutely no evidence that anyone else wrote the book of Genesis at any other time, and yet that is what you seem to be implying through lack of evidence, and thirdly, the writers of the Bible, from Joshua to Jesus they attribute the writing to Moses. If you found a cuneiform tablet of a secular nature confirming this would it make it true?
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Simply Hebrew texts dated from the time of Moses. None exist.

    I warned that this was on the way. 'Arguing from ignorance' is not an adequate argument that anything exists. Yes there is evidence that others wrote the myths in the Canaanite, Ugarit, Babylonian, and Sumarian cuneiform tablets.

    Later attributions of authorship are 'traditional beliefs' without any supporting evidence to justify your claim. The attributing authorship of ancient texts without evidence of authorship is common in the ancient cultures.

    Hypothetical archaeological finds that do not exist are not an adequate argument. Nothing has been found either secular nor scripture.

    Still waiting for actual archaeological finds that justify your position .Nothing provided so far.
     
  6. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, literal YEC is turning people away from religions. YEC is like simultaneously shooting themselves in the foot while giving free ammo to anti-theists.
     
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  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    That was grade school in the 1950s. We all survived it.
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Professor F. F. Bruce:
    “For Cæsar’s Gallic War (composed between 58 and 50 B.C.) there are several extant MSS, but only nine or ten are good, and the oldest is some 900 years later than Cæsar’s day.

    “Of the 142 books of the Roman history of Livy (59 B.C.-A.D. 17), only 35 survive; these are known to us from not more than twenty MSS of any consequence, only one of which, and that containing fragments of Books III-VI, is as old as the fourth century.

    “Of the fourteen books of the Histories of Tacitus (c. A.D. 100) only four and a half survive; of the sixteen books of his Annals, ten survive in full and two in part. The text of these extant portions of his two great historical works depends entirely on two MSS, one of the ninth century and one of the eleventh. . . .

    “The History of Thucydides (c. 460-400 B.C.) is known to us from eight MSS, the earliest belonging to c. A.D. 900, and a few papyrus scraps, belonging to about the beginning of the Christian era.

    “The same is true of the History of Herodotus (c. 488-428 B.C.). Yet no classical scholar would listen to an argument that the authenticity of Herodotus or Thucydides is in doubt because the earliest MSS of their works which are of any use to us are over 1,300 years later than the originals.” - The Books and the Parchments, page 180.

    Yet there are thousands of manuscripts of various portions of the Bible, some of which go back to within a hundred years of the time of the writing of the original material.

    This is what I want you to show me.

    The weakness, I have found, in educated people is that they don't seem to be able to think for themselves. They are good at regurgitating information but not so good at critical thinking. If you read in a scientific journal that they discovered some pictographic or cuneiform text and it was attributed to the chief of the tribe or medicine man or king or whatever, you wouldn't doubt it. Especially in the unlikely event that you were amazingly fortunate enough to discover another sample from another time which confirmed it, so why not the Bible? The writers of which who followed Moses in chronological order attributed the writing of the Pentateuch to Moses. From accurate Bible chronology you can ascertain the date of it's writing. You don't accept that because you don't accept the Bible. Is this not correct?

    Wait a minute. I just said that the authors of the Bible, from Joshua, who was tutored by Moses, up to Jesus attribute Moses to the writing of the Law of Moses. And you say "nor scripture?"

    I realize that hypothetical archaeological finds isn't an adequate argument, I'm just trying to establish the possibility of a bias here, an agenda of an atheist nature. A double standard.

    The Value of Archaeology

    “Archaeology provides a sampling of ancient tools and vessels, walls and buildings, weapons and adornments. Most of these can be chronologically arranged and securely identified with appropriate terms and contexts contained in the Bible. In this sense the Bible accurately preserves in written form its ancient cultural milieu. The details of biblical stories are not the fanciful products of an author’s imagination but rather are authentic reflections of the world in which the recorded events, from the mundane to the miraculous, took place.” - The Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land.

    What Archaeology Can and Cannot Do

    “Archaeology neither proves nor disproves the Bible in conclusive terms, but it has other functions, of considerable importance. It recovers in some degree the material world presupposed by the Bible. To know, say, the material of which a house was built, or what a ‘high place’ looked like, much enhances our understanding of the text. Secondly, it fills out the historical record. The Moabite Stone, for example, gives the other side of the story treated in 2 Kings 3:4ff. . . . Thirdly, it reveals the life and thought of the neighbours of ancient Israel—which is of interest in itself, and which illuminates the world of ideas within which the thought of ancient Israel developed.” - Ebla - A Revelation in Archaeology.
     
  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Refute what? Narcissism? How can I refute someone's narcissism? Especially if it's religious narcissism. What Ido I point to the bible?

    YEC isn't even "CHRISTIAN," its Amway. I mean if people are convinced That amway is truth it's sort of hard to dissuade them. Some come to realisation eventually many don't. Grow up stop with the Bible as comic book its distracted distracting and immature all about me on high. But totally normal and American at the same time.
     
  10. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    There is essentially nothing that you cannot believe based upon faith alone. Therefore, faith is not a reliable pathway to the truth of anything. If there is a god and he designed me to think critically and withhold belief until the evidence supports the belief, and then punishes me for doing what he designed me to do, then that god is a dick.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I guess I was a lot more fortunate, private school
    Hong Kong in the 90s could not help but be a
    lot different. Not that I would necessarily wish
    it on everybody!
     
  12. Marsh

    Marsh Active Member

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    Just thought I should point out that some atheists, including a number I known, and including myself, are Trump supporters.
     
  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well, that is just deplorable! :D
     
  14. Marsh

    Marsh Active Member

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    Fundamentalism definitely played an important role in turning me against belief in God. I just could not figure out a way to fit Genesis, or the Bible in general, into a scientific world view. After having lost my faith I often thought, if only society around me, and in particular my church, had not been so insistent on setting Genesis before science. I found myself in a position where I though I had to choose between the reality of God or the reality of the science I was certain was well founded. God lost.
     
  15. Marsh

    Marsh Active Member

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    LOL. I've often thought I should look for a deplorables t-shirt.
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Speaking as an atheist who never had any
    religious affiliation at all, it seems to me that
    a silly false version of "god" is what lost.

    One of my favourite people-I wish I am as smart as
    she-is a molecular biologist. Catholic.

    She is no floodie or evolution denier. Her faith
    is of very different sort, and I respect it.
     
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  17. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    I'm not going to debate on the infantile level of a rebellious kid smoking behind the bike sheds. Stop asking for evidence. God's not your idiot.

    What shall I say of this generation. They ask me for a sign. They say: we piped but you would not dance ...
     
    #157 ERLOS, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  18. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    But did you decry other politicians, say Bill Clinton for example, for being moral unfit to be president because he had extramarital affairs? No? Then you're not a hypocrite, unlike those who cry moral outrage at the politicians they don't like, citing God as the standard to bear. Yet when Trump comes along, none of all that which they screamed about to the high heavens, really matters all that much. That's pure religious hypocrisy.

    Why then should they have any credibility in the eyes of those who seek for actual spiritual truth? Atheism is clearly more attractive because they sure don't have it.
     
    #158 Windwalker, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  19. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you are his?
     
  20. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Trump is a judgement from Allah SWT for the evil that huumans do.
     
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