Is Belief a Choice?

[ChristineES]

I think I can add this question: If someone chooses to believe something, do they truly believe?

I can't answer it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Sir Doom]

I think I can add this question: If someone chooses to believe something, do they truly believe?

Obviously, yes. If they choose to believe something, they believe it. Truly. If they don't believe it truly, then they didn't choose to believe it... did they? They did something else entirely.

I can't answer it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Good thing I'm here, then.

 

[NIX]

In you list of gods.....is there an Almighty?
One most potent...most intelligent......
Can that God......create?

My gods exist within me.
I am the one who brings them into being.
Then their very real being in me changes me.

I have no 'list' of gods,
(no set or classic pantheon)
but for me the greek god Chaos most/best resonates
the embodiment of 'potent' 'create' 'first'.

The primal void from which all things arise/manifest and fall/disolve; come into being and cease to be.
Principal Darkness can also be embodied by 'The Prince of Darkness'.

Almighty makes me think of All and Mighty. I dunno. All things are god and the universe itself, the fabric of the universe, is mighty?
It's a Pantheistic take.
Almighty is not a term that really resonates with me.
But I guess Chaos, again would most embody that.
All things rising up, all of creation coming forth from the mighty lake of Chaos.

 

[Straw Dog]

Well, I can speculate...

All beliefs are based on conditions. Some beliefs become associated with positive consequences and are reinforced. Other beliefs become associated with negative consequences, which are then challenged and/or refined. Finally, some beliefs are largely inconsequential and either upheld or dropped for no evident reason. Choice is based on probability, with various dynamic conditions increasing or decreasing the probability for any given belief to form.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Obviously, yes. If they choose to believe something, they believe it. Truly. If they don't believe it truly, then they didn't choose to believe it... did they? They did something else entirely.

Good thing I'm here, then.

I pretty much agree with your answer, but I'm going to refute it anyway. I'm bored, in simple terms...lol

I think it's hard to choose to believe anything, really. You can choose to educate yourself about things, you can choose to invest effort in some things, and I think it is those decisions (amongst others) that informs your belief.

But the belief itself just happens. By the very nature of choosing, you are making a conscious effort to believe something. That sounds to me like it's a little forced. Not to say you wouldn't end up believing it anyway, and also possible that this conscious choice then leads the decision to educate yourself (possibly selectively), but I think 'true' belief happens as a consequence of action, not an action in and of itself.

 

[NIX]

The purposeful suspension of disbelief creates a sort of temporary window of belief.

You can close the window when you are done, but when the window is open you are operating in the realm of belief.

You can choose to open and close the window.

 

[Kalidas]

God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now this argument can go one of two ways.
1. that is proof God exists or that gene wouldn't exist, it's scientific proof God wants us to believe etc...

2. that is scientific proof he does not believe because it's just a genetic trait (disorder to some)

I say if this gene is linked to spirituality then there is no choice, and here is what I say to that...I don't care.

I have had this argument with an atheist friend of mine before and my final response was if I died found out there was no God and could do it all over again I would still "choose" to believe (not honestly but you get the idea). Religion helps me be a better person, makes me happy, and has helped me a lot recently. A little over a year ago my fiance and I lost our son I have been fairly depressed ever since and turned away from God(why would you let this happen! etc..)

I have recently returned back to being an active Hindu and feel a lot better my depression is slipping away and am all around happier. sure could all of this have been attained with a belief in God? Probably. Is it helping me now? YES!

Back to the original question, do I believe it is a choice? nope. I feel all people and their belief (or lack of) in God is needed and exists for a reason.

Like for example I feel atheists are VERY important to human survival. Think of all of our advanced medicine and technological advancement. Had there not been a group of people to challenge God none of these things would have arisen.

Choice or not I think everyone should work a little hard being a better Human being and not worry so much about what others believe.

Not that I am insulting this discussion FYI, I actually enjoy this conversation very much.

 

[Thief]

My gods exist within me.
I am the one who brings them into being.
Then their very real being in me changes me.

I have no 'list' of gods,
(no set or classic pantheon)
but for me the greek god Chaos most/best resonates
the embodiment of 'potent' 'create' 'first'.

The primal void from which all things arise/manifest and fall/disolve; come into being and cease to be.
Principal Darkness can also be embodied by 'The Prince of Darkness'.

Almighty makes me think of All and Mighty. I dunno. All things are god and the universe itself, the fabric of the universe, is mighty?
It's a Pantheistic take.
Almighty is not a term that really resonates with me.
But I guess Chaos, again would most embody that.
All things rising up, all of creation coming forth from the mighty lake of Chaos.

I work with superlatives.
I am not top of the line life form.
I believe in life after death.

If we each stand from our bodies as the chemistry fails....we stand into chaos.
Unless.....There is Someone in charge.

 

[Sir Doom]

I pretty much agree with your answer, but I'm going to refute it anyway. I'm bored, in simple terms...lol

Here's to entertainment! :drunk:

I think it's hard to choose to believe anything, really. You can choose to educate yourself about things, you can choose to invest effort in some things, and I think it is those decisions (amongst others) that informs your belief.

That is choosing to believe something. You can't just remove all of the choices that lead to a belief right before it happens and call it separate.

But the belief itself just happens. By the very nature of choosing, you are making a conscious effort to believe something. That sounds to me like it's a little forced. Not to say you wouldn't end up believing it anyway, and also possible that this conscious choice then leads the decision to educate yourself (possibly selectively), but I think 'true' belief happens as a consequence of action, not an action in and of itself.

No, the belief is a result of choice. All information must be analyzed and interpreted. These are conscious actions. The results are what you believe. And because the information is always incomplete, and the interpretation is always subjective the answer is never so clear as to 'just happen' You must make a decision at some point. What's more, right now in this moment you are fully capable of readdressing any belief you hold, evaluate as much information as you like about the subject and make a new choice about what to believe. Even if that choice is nothing but a galvanized version of the previous belief. It is still a new choice.

 

[NIX]

I work with superlatives.
I am not top of the line life form.
I believe in life after death.

If we each stand from our bodies as the chemistry fails....we stand into chaos.
Unless.....There is Someone in charge.

Your god reflects and embodies your ideas about life, death and god.

My gods do the same.

We simply have different ideas about life, death and god/s.
I'm fine with that.

I choose the ideas and experiences that appeal to me most, you choose the ideas and experiences that appeal to you most.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Here's to entertainment! :drunk:

Indeed!

:drunk:

That is choosing to believe something. You can't just remove all of the choices that lead to a belief right before it happens and call it separate.

Well...I only sorta agree. I think you can, consciously or subconsciously direct your thinking through selective education, as an example. So, I feel like immigrants are ruining this country (I mean...I don't. It's just an example), so I read literature which reinforces my position, makes me feel all warm and self-righteous, and gives me the necessary ammunition to argue my point of view in a fairly meaningful and convincing way. And of course, this can occur much more subtly than this clumsy example may suggest.

But I also think it is possible to educate yourself in a fairly neutral way, to try and get both sides of an argument, and to take a stance based on where the evidence leads. I don't think humans commonly do this, even when they think they do, but I think it's possible to be lead to a decision in this manner. The active decision I would be making is to read 5 books about a topic I am ignorant about. I will try to read books broadly representing the 2 'sides' and form an opinion at the end of it. I read the books, and THEN form an opinion. The decision to read said books was decision-neutral, the belief I formed at the end was causally linked to the books.

No, the belief is a result of choice. All information must be analyzed and interpreted. These are conscious actions. The results are what you believe. And because the information is always incomplete, and the interpretation is always subjective the answer is never so clear as to 'just happen' You must make a decision at some point. What's more, right now in this moment you are fully capable of readdressing any belief you hold, evaluate as much information as you like about the subject and make a new choice about what to believe. Even if that choice is nothing but a galvanized version of the previous belief. It is still a new choice.

Unfortunately, we do really kind of agree, at least at a high level. I had a few drinks with dinner and my slapping hand is itchy, but you make a lot of sense, demmit.

But I'll stick somewhat weakly to my position. I can decide to gather more information about a position, and I can skew the way I educate myself. Do this effectively enough, and it will certainly lead belief in a certain direction. But there are certain things so ingrained in a person it is almost impossible to consciously change the belief. Look at the emotional damage done to children, or beaten spouse's, etc. The ingrained emotional damage, the lack-of-self-worth, etc, can take a life time to get over, or not prove possible to get over at all. This would, I think, indicate that even education and conscious thought are not enough to dismiss a belief held deeply enough.

I will concede that I agree with you in the majority of cases, though.

 

[ChristineES]

Obviously, yes. If they choose to believe something, they believe it. Truly. If they don't believe it truly, then they didn't choose to believe it... did they? They did something else entirely.



Good thing I'm here, then.

I can always hold in regard anyone who can answer a question I can't.

 

[Thief]

Obviously, yes. If they choose to believe something, they believe it. Truly. If they don't believe it truly, then they didn't choose to believe it... did they? They did something else entirely.

There are new testaments accounts dealing with hypocrisy.
and people who say....'Lord! Lord!'....and He knows them not.

Believing is more than say so....so I suspect.

 

[Muffled]

I find it impossible to choose to believe something that I don't find true, or disbelieve something that I do find true. Others may have a greater capacity for self-deception and inconsistency than I do though.

Often belief trumps reality. Present all the evidence you want but the person will not change his belief because he chooses to believe it even when the evidence is contrary.

Then I have a problem with something that God tells me is true but it goes against all the evidence. So even though I choose to believe God, my physche just won't accept it. This is not unusual as many do not believe in the miracles of the Bible because they run contrary to the evidence we are used to seeing. At that point the person has to choose whether to believe God or his understanding of life.

 

[paarsurrey]

How so? How can one choose their beliefs?

One can get convinced with reasonable and rational arguments also with bright divine signs; then one can change one's belief/faith/religion; so it is always a choice for Truth; and there is no blemish for it.

 

[Ouroboros]

Some feel that Belief is a choice. Some don't. I personally don't to a degree. For example can any of your choose to believe in Santa? Truly really believe? Can you choose to believe in any god in particular?

It's a combination.

We learn things. We believe things we hear based on trust, which comes from experience. Then we strengthen our beliefs by searching out information that corresponds with out belief. It's a circular, recursive, self-feeding thing. Some we can't choose. Some it's our own fault.

 

[Roadrider]

Live, give love to those you feel deserve it and kill your enemies, then you die sometime

 

[Trantorfuzz]

@Monk of Reason: First off, you need to distinguish two questions: Is it possible to choose to believe something? Is it possible to choose to believe any claim whatsoever?

Obviously, the answer to the second question is "no." For example, it is not possible to choose to believe that one is ready to qualify for the hundred yard dash in the Olympic Games when one is eighty years old and dying of bubonic plague. In this case, evident phenomena place limits on what one can rationally chose to believe.

However, there are a great many things that are not evident. The existence of one or more invisible, intangible deities is one. The necessary non-existence of one or more invisible, intangible deities is another. So one may choose to believe in such a deity or not, depending on whether this belief does or does not involve commitment to demonstrably false claims. One may, for example, choose to believe in the god of the Deists, or not, if only on pragmatic grounds.

 

[Draka]

One can get convinced with reasonable and rational arguments also with bright divine signs; then one can change one's belief/faith/religion; so it is always a choice for Truth; and there is no blemish for it.

You said it is a choice with consequences. If one gets convinced of something then did they really choose to believe it or could they choose to believe against what they were convinced of?

I think a better question would be: Is it a conscious choice? The answer would have to be "No". You don't sit down and choose what to believe, not consciously. You are led to certain conclusions and beliefs through experiences in your life. You can't undo what you've learned, you can only build upon it.

Now, as to these consequences you mentioned. What are you talking about?

 

[Vadergirl123]

Some feel that Belief is a choice. Some don't. I personally don't to a degree. For example can any of your choose to believe in Santa? Truly really believe? Can you choose to believe in any god in particular?

Yes a person can chose to believe in Santa if they want to, as humans we can chose to believe in anything we want.