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Featured Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    People may judge for themselves. whether or not Baha'u'llah is a true or false Prophet.

    On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
    Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
    Wikipedia › wiki › Bahá'u'lláh

    Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre in Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
    Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
    Wikipedia › wiki › Shrine_of_Bahá'u'lláh

    The Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh, located in Bahjí near Acre, Israel, is the most holy ... It contains the remains of Bahá'u'lláh and is near the spot where he died in the Mansion of Bahjí.

    This being about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.


    Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
    This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.

    Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.

    The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

    But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.

    So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

    But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    34-- "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

    So we find the Prophets of Gods died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem or by a natural death of old age.

    Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem.

    So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever. As there were no prophets of Gods that ever died by any diseases.

    But by a natural death of old age or at the hands of people in Jerusalem.

    Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

    For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

    That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem as a false prophet.
     
    #1 Faithofchristian, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    I believe Baha'u'llah can be held up as a prophet of some regard. That literal interpretation of having to die in Jerusalem at the hands of the people just makes no senses to me. It almost sounds like it could be a later addition to Jesus' alleged words to fit his story and death.

    Seems like this requirement doesn't hold up for many prophets.
     
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  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Neither. There is no such thing as prophets. The entire idea is false. You really need someone else to do your work for you? That seems like a copout.
     
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  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    But had you read, Jesus did say, ( For it cannot be that a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem)
    This pertains to all of God's prophets, that they will not die any where else but at Jerusalem. Even Christ Jesus himself died at Jerusalem, thereby fulfilling God's Prophets dieing at Jerusalem and no where else but at Jerusalem.

    So what Jesus is signifying is that God's Prophets will not die no where else but at Jerusalem
    For Christ Jesus himself died at Jerusalem to signify the Prophets of God's shall not die any where else but at Jerusalem.
     
  5. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    Can you give me quickie list of any prophets beyond Jesus that died in Jerusalem? It seems like it would be a short list. The whole rest of the world is vacant of prophets?

    This conversation will probably get into the definition of a 'prophet'.
     
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  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    We can not reject Baha'u'llah's claim to be a prophet on this one verse which you have clearly misinterpreted.

    Christ is lamenting how the Hebrew people have treated their prophets of old, and the absurd reasons used to justify their behaviour in putting to death God's messengers. Moses Himself wouldn't be considered a prophet nor would many of the OT prophets. When considering any biblical verse its important to understand the context rather than taking one verse out of context and giving it a literal meaning that was never intended (Luke 13:31-35).

    It can be useful to consider what other biblical commentators have said. For example Bensons states:

    That unhappy city, which claims prescription for murdering the messengers of God. Such cruelty and malice cannot be found elsewhere. If a true prophet was put to death, he was prosecuted as a false prophet. Now the supreme court, whose prerogative it was to judge prophets, had its seat at Jerusalem. Inferior courts did not take cognizance of such causes; and therefore, if a prophet was put to death, it must be at Jerusalem.

    Luke 13:33 Commentaries: "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem.

    The verse may also be an allusion to Jesus's impending martyrdom. It would be foolish to reject Baha'u'llah's claim to be a prophet based on just one verse.

    So how do we establish a true prophet based on biblical criteria? He would speak in God’s name; the things foretold would come to pass (Deuteronomy 18:20-22); what He teaches must be in harmony with God’s commandments (Deuteronomy 13:1-4). and a true prophet must bear good fruit (Matthew 7:17-20). It is a test from God for each of us to judge fairly (Matthew 7:1-4).

    My purpose in posting is not to prove Baha'u'llah is or isn't a prophet...rather to correct the error in misinterpreting Luke 13:33.
     
    #6 adrian009, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    As I see it, Baha'u'llah is no more true or false than any other has made claims to be on this earth to spread the word of God.

    It has been my experience that God, the Absolute, Brahman, or whatever your worldview leads you to refer to It, is realized and understood from experiences from within, not without.
     
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  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Nope not at all, Jesus was very clear about what he said. For it cannot be a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.

    How much more can Christ Jesus be than that.
     
  9. Trackdayguy

    Trackdayguy Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall

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    If it's true for you, then it's true.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Nope not at all, what Christ Jesus said is true for me. As I stand with what Christ Jesus said to be true.
     
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    This verse, is figurative, because Jesus is speaking only about 3 days. Today, tomorrow and the day after. perishing does not always mean literally death. If you leave a place suddenly, and forever, it can be as if you have perished from that place.
    It is most likely related to the prophecy of the new Jerusalem, coming from heaven. Until the new Jerusalem comes down, none of the prophets are perished. But, when new Jerusalem comes down, it is the end. In Bahai Faith, Bahaullah is the fulfillment of the time of the end.
     
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  12. Trackdayguy

    Trackdayguy Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall

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    Like you say its true for you.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    So the prophets that Jesus spoke about are also figurative, as to how people come by that. Jesus speaking is not figurative about prophets.
    If to what say to be right, than that means all the Prophets of God must be figurative that died at Jerusalem.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What Christ Jesus says is true for me.
    Seems like your having hard time understanding simple English.
     
  15. Trackdayguy

    Trackdayguy Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall

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    I agree, its true for you. That doesn't make it true for everybody else.
     
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  16. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    In Bahai view, the 6 Days of Genesis are figurative. They are allusions to 6 periods, in which God created the human civilization. These six periods, in my vie are the following:

    Day 1: from covenant of Adam till Noah
    Day 2: from covenant of Noah till Abraham
    Day 3: from Abraham till Moses
    Day 4: from Moses till Jesus
    Day 5: from Jesus till Muhammad
    Day 6: from Muhammad till the Bab. The Bab marks fulfillment of 6000 years from Adam.

    Now, in Bahai view, there is only One Spirit of Christ who Every time appeared. So, when Jesus spoke of Today, Tomorrow, and Day after, He was figuratively alluding to, Jesus, Muhammad, and the Bab appearances, who are the same Spirit of Christ. By Jerusalem is meant Religion of God. So, when it is said a new Jeruslame comes down from heaven, it is an allusion to a new Revelation, or religion of God. So, Christ was alluding that, a Prophet never parishes outside of religion of God, meaning He will remain forever in the heavenly Jerusalem.
     
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  17. Trackdayguy

    Trackdayguy Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall

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    The bottom line is we are all one people who inhabit the same planet. God has spoken many times through various prophets and will continue to do so until we hear His heart. Unity & Compassion
     
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  18. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Personally, I don't believe in divinely ordained prophets although I know mankind has no problem designating their favorites as such. It's an idea you either buy into or you don't. A herd mentality example?
     
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  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Seriously?

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    How can you tell bahallah is a false prophet by going off of whats written?

    He could be a true prophet but reading his books wouldnt prove that anymore than the bible proves the divinity of christ.
     
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  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    With enough exegesis, would say it gives a definitive answer:

    Biblically the God Most High (El Elyon) is the father of YHVH/Yeshua (Lord of Creation/Salvation)... Baha'ullah (Glory of the Father) claims to be 'jesus's father' (YHVH).

    The God Most High is beyond form (2nd Commandment), and never has an image its self; tho it can appear to mankind through representations.

    In my opinion.:innocent:
     
    #20 wizanda, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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