Is atheism a belief?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, at least @9-10ths_Penguin tried.

The main problem with this conversation is that it's almost impossible to have a rational conversation when virtually none of the words being used to describe the most important concepts are precisely defined or used in a consistent way.
Tom

I've found them to often not be used consistently within one person's own thought process. For instance; I've seen people insist on definitions that would make atheism humanly impossible, but still concede that atheists exist.

 

[Heyo]

I was talking mainly about your "colloquial" definition of "agnostic," but also part of your "philosophical" definition. Merely asserting that the existence of gods is unknown isn't what makes a person an agnostic; it's the assertion that the existence of gods is unknowable.

I'm working on that but currently I'm not able to argue that position with rigour. Even Huxley didn't give a conclusive proof of the unknowability. It might even be impossible to prove that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No. No need to rethink that. That is true IMO. Belief is not rational (=irrational)

For you that appears to be the case. It is an error to assume that no one can be rational.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, I agree that Atheism is very "rational"

No need for scare quotes.

 

[columbus]

I've found them to often not be used consistently within one person's own thought process. For instance; I've seen people insist on definitions that would make atheism humanly impossible, but still concede that atheists exist.

I'm totally with you on this.
The very fact that theists do that so often is proof(compelling evidence) that they don't even understand humans, much less God.
Tom

 

[stvdv]

For you that appears to be the case. It is an error to assume that no one can be rational.

True. Theists can be very "rational"

Note: My quotes are not scare tactics. That was your false belief

 

[stvdv]

No need for scare quotes.

That is your belief. Not mine

 

[ecco]

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

You’re right about the atheist as opposed to atheism.

Did you not know the difference between atheist and atheism or was that just a typo?

The words atheism and atheist will clearly have a range of meanings. At some point I want to have a much clearer grasp of some of those differences and why they are so important, particularly to those who identify as atheist. I don’t see how I can get there without hearing from atheists themselves.

Is there really a big difference between the two versions you wrote in your OP?
Why do you want "a much clearer grasp of some of those differences"?
Why do you think they "are so important, particularly to those who identify as atheist"?

How about...
A person who knows that all gods are the creation of Man's imaginings?
A person who knows there are no gods for the same reason he knows that there are no critters with big ears whistling while they pilot a boat.

 

[j1i]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

Atheism in the contemporary concept means disrupting the Creator at all, denying his existence, and not recognizing Him, the world and what has come, according to their claim, by chance, a strange doctrine contrary to instinct, reason and common sense, and contrary to the axioms of reason and axioms of thought.

As for polytheism, it involves believing in God Almighty and acknowledging it, but it also includes believing in a partner of God in his creation, creating, or providing, benefiting, or harming, and this is a decoy of Godhead, or a partner who is given some love and exalted worship, as God Almighty acted. (This is a worship trap). for example (jesus with GOD)

Reflecting on these two deviations, we find that in each of the sin and bad, which shows us their bad condition

with respect

 

[ecco]

• The question isn’t ‘Is atheism a religion?’ Instead its is atheism a belief? What is a belief? It could be defined as:
  
  
• 1/ an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
• 2/ trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

So most of what I believe in has little to do with religion or even faith.

Do you think the word belief is specifically about religion?

Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that there are several distinctly different definitions for the word "belief"?
belief
noun
be·lief | \ bə-ˈlēf \
Definition of belief


1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing // her belief in God
2: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed // an individual's religious or political beliefs // especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group // the beliefs of the Catholic Church
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence belief in the validity of scientific statements


Are you really going to try the well-worn tactic of attempting to conflate the distinct definitions and try to wrap atheists beliefs, which are based on knowledge with the blind faith beliefs of theists?

If there is a problem with your understanding of American English, then you probably should take the time to familiarize yourself with its intricacies.

However, I don't believe that's the case. I believe that you intentionally conflated the definitions. I believe that based on your many other posts and the number of times other theists have tried to same ploy. It gets a little old.

 

[Nakosis]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

Could be. I could see someone taking it as a belief, but there is no commandments, no required ideology. No precepts of any kind needed. Really just a lack of any belief in a deity or God.

So there is no necessary belief for atheism. Folks who take it as a belief are doing it wrong IMO. Still, that ain't going to prevent people, even atheists from doing so.

 

[ecco]

Although its not as accepted in Christianity, its become increasingly recognised that many Christians are atheists too.

Increasingly recognized by whom? You can support your assertion, can't you?

 

[ecco]

Just to verify if I totally understand now.

An Atheist can believe sometimes

Nonsense.

 

[ecco]

What does "gods" mean in the general?

Imaginary entities concocted by man.

 

[ecco]

This entire thread seems to have overlooked that the concept of God varies from faith to faith. One can be atheist to one concept, but theist to another.

According to your statement, everyone is an atheist.

 

[ecco]

I am an Agnostic in that my position is, that the existence and nature of god(s) is not known (by me or anybody else) and that it is possibly unknowable.

Please show any god that is not the creation of man's imaginings.
Gods are no different in their origin than Mickey Mouse or Superman. The only difference is in the intent of the creators. Micky and Superman were created to entertain. Gods were created to explain the unexplainable (Thor - Lightening; Death - Heaven); to control (don't eat the dirty pig; don't covet thy neighbors ***); to create a powerful class (witch doctor; advisor to kings).

If you disagree, please show any god that was not created by man.

 

[ecco]

Atheism in the contemporary concept means disrupting the Creator at all, denying his existence, and not recognizing Him, the world and what has come, according to their claim, by chance, a strange doctrine contrary to instinct, reason and common sense, and contrary to the axioms of reason and axioms of thought.

Well, there ya go. Golly, I have just learned so much about me from your post. Thank you.

 

[stvdv]

Just to verify if I totally understand now.

An Atheist can believe sometimes. As long as it has nothing to do with Theism, correct?

Hypothetical: You had sex yesterday and it was good for you. For her it was not that good. She gives you some pointers. So now you believe next time it will be good for her also.

Nonsense.

My nonsense

or

Your lack of proper introspection

Time will tell

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, and I consider the attempts to make the word 'belief' a dirty word that only 'they' use disingenuous and boring, as it interrupts what could be decent conversation for unproductive quibbling. And I say that as an atheist.

 

[Nakosis]

Aha, thank you. You explained it very clear. Now I understand why I never understood the difference.

My focus was on the "belief definition"
Your focus is entirely on "Theist definition"
I just could not believe an Atheist never believes.

Just to verify if I totally understand now.

An Atheist can believe sometimes. As long as it has nothing to do with Theism, correct?

Hypothetical: You had sex yesterday and it was good for you. For her it was not that good. She gives you some pointers. So now you believe next time it will be good for her also.

An atheist could actually believe there is no God but such belief is not a requirement to be an atheist. They could even see it as a necessary part of being an atheist, but it's not really.