Is atheism a belief?

[Heyo]

The whole atheism vs agnosticism is another area that’s prone to differences of opinion and misunderstandings. Agnosticism as I understand it addresses another question, particularly in regards to whether or not its possible to know something. Atheism is about belief or lack of belief in God or gods. A common misunderstanding is agnosticism occupies a middle ground between theism and atheism. Perhaps we should hear from any agnostics as to how they see it?

As with atheism/Atheism (see my other comment), agnosticism has a colloquial and a philosophical definition.
Colloquial := not knowing whether gods exist or not
Philosophically := the position that the existence and nature of god or gods is not known / can't be known
I think of myself as a philosophical Agnostic and a colloquial atheist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheism := is the position that there are no gods.
Atheist := someone holding the position of Atheism.

To hold that position, someone would have to comprehend what "gods" means in the general.

What does "gods" mean in the general?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

Okay. I thought we were going to ask if atheism in and of itself is as a belief.

I stick with the definition definition.
Here's an insight on the word: Definition of ATHEISM

First Known Use of atheism
History and Etymology for atheism

Among other interesting topics.

Theism: belief in gods. A-theism, disbelief in gods (Any deity-hindu, pagan, abrahamic, so forth).

As for a belief, it's an absent of or contrast of, I guess (A- ) beliefs.

Unless you can tie into how the two go together? Insight?

 

[Heyo]

To hold that position, someone would have to comprehend what "gods" means in the general.

What does "gods" mean in the general?

I have no clue. (And neither do you.) That's why I'm an Agnostic.

 

[columbus]

"A religion where blind (non-omniscient, cannot prove an absolute negative) faith is employed to worship oneself or another idol, replacing God."

@Augustus
This post is a clear example of why the statement "Atheism is not a religion any more than bald is a hair color." is not a joke. It's a pithy way of stating a truth that many theists are unable to grasp.

There are those of us who don't worship anything, not money or ourselves or a fictional character from scripture, not anything. Theists commonly cannot understand that. It seems that many people are so thoroughly inculcated into worship of a higher power that they cannot understand that not everyone does.

Add to that the hubris of believing that you understand other people better than they understand themselves, and you get views like the one quoted.
Tom

 

[Polymath257]

"A religion where blind (non-omniscient, cannot prove an absolute negative) faith is employed to worship oneself or another idol, replacing God."

I have yet to meet an atheist that 'worships oneself' nor, and 'idols'. Most atheists simply don't *worship* at all.

 

[Revoltingest]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

Strong atheism: Belief
Weak atheism: Absence of belief

There, that's settled.
The thread can end now.

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

Atheism is difficult to define for two reasons.

The first reason is that atheism as a concept is defined by a contrast to the concept of theism, which is itself defined as a function of a conception of god or deity. And it turns out that such concepts are incredibly arbitrary, to the point of being strictly personal. This trait of the concept, unfortunately, is usually neglected or even denied outright. Even many atheists have not quite realized that such is the case, and end up arguing from a very unwarranted presumption that there is such a thing as a consensus on what "god" would be.

The second reason is that various people at different times want to attribute some or no agency and intent to atheism; in essence, there are those who want to mistake strong atheism for atheism proper.

Atheism proper is actually an absence of god-belief (theism). It is therefore not a belief, but rather the absence of a certain specific (if remarkably arbitrary and vague) belief.

But that is difficult for some people to accept.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have no clue. (And neither do you.) That's why I'm an Agnostic.

I know partially. I know that Jehovah, Thor, Zeus, and Quetzlcoatl are gods, but my microwave, Superman, intelligent aliens, ghosts, and the Archangel Gabriel are not.

I disagree with your definition of agnostic, though. To me, an agnostic is someone who makes the claim that the existence of gods is unknowable, not just someone who's on the fence.

Generally, I consider ignostics to be atheists: you can't conceive of "a god exists" as true if "god" is meaningless to you, so of course ignostics don't hold belief in gods.

 

[columbus]

Strong atheism: Belief
Weak atheism: Absence of belief

There, that's settled.
The thread can end now.

No, not really.
There are agnostic(weak) atheists who consider themselves strong atheists, because they are very confident about their conclusions about religious worldviews.

There's hardly a word in this conversation that everyone agrees on the meaning.

Good Times

Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

There are agnostic(weak) atheists who consider themselves strong atheists, because....

There is nothing rational which could follow that.

 

[Shadow Link]

Atheism is good for some belief.
Theism is good for most unbelief.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, not really.
There are agnostic(weak) atheists who consider themselves strong atheists, because they are very confident about their conclusions about religious worldviews.

There's hardly a word in this conversation that everyone agrees on the meaning.

Good Times

Tom

Agnostic <> weak atheist

The two descriptions may apply to the same person, but they're different things.

 

[Vinayaka]

This entire thread seems to have overlooked that the concept of God varies from faith to faith. One can be atheist to one concept, but theist to another.

 

[Heyo]

I know partially. I know that Jehovah, Thor, Zeus, and Quetzlcoatl are gods, but my microwave, Superman, intelligent aliens, ghosts, and the Archangel Gabriel are not.

I disagree with your definition of agnostic, though. To me, an agnostic is someone who makes the claim that the existence of gods is unknowable, not just someone who's on the fence.

Generally, I consider ignostics to be atheists: you can't conceive of "a god exists" as true if "god" is meaningless to you, so of course ignostics don't hold belief in gods.

You can make a list, but can you make a complete list or provide a definition that leads to a complete list?

Are you referring to my definitions I made above or have you derived a definition from my statement? I am an Agnostic in that my position is, that the existence and nature of god(s) is not known (by me or anybody else) and that it is possibly unknowable.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can make a list, but can you make a complete list or provide a definition that leads to a complete list?

I definitely can't make a complete list.

Are you referring to my definitions I made above or have you derived a definition from my statement? I am an Agnostic in that my position is, that the existence and nature of god(s) is not known (by me or anybody else) and that it is possibly unknowable.

I was talking mainly about your "colloquial" definition of "agnostic," but also part of your "philosophical" definition. Merely asserting that the existence of gods is unknown isn't what makes a person an agnostic; it's the assertion that the existence of gods is unknowable.

 

[columbus]

There is nothing rational which could follow that.

Well, at least @9-10ths_Penguin tried.

The main problem with this conversation is that it's almost impossible to have a rational conversation when virtually none of the words being used to describe the most important concepts are precisely defined or used in a consistent way.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, at least @9-10ths_Penguin tried.

The main problem with this conversation is that it's almost impossible to have a rational conversation when virtually none of the words being used to describe the most important concepts are precisely defined or used in a consistent way.
Tom

As I often note....we live in a post-dictionary age.

 

[Augustus]

"Atheism is not a religion any more than bald is a hair color." is not a joke. It's a pithy way of stating a truth that many theists are unable to grasp.

That some people have agendas regarding atheism doesn't mean it isn't incredibly hackneyed 'humour' (it does make more sense in the 'is a religion' formulation rather than 'is a belief' one though).

And if it didn't make them change their ideological leanings the 1st time around, it probably won't on the 475th

"Gadzooks, the retort was too droll and had flummoxed mine mind afore this day, but now it strikes true I see and proclaim thee to have bested mine good self in this battle of wits. To you sir, I do doff mine cap. Huzzah!"

 

[columbus]

I disagree with your definition of agnostic, though. To me, an agnostic is someone who makes the claim that the existence of gods is unknowable, not just someone who's on the fence.

This is an important truth.

Agnosticism is not primarily a belief about religion or deities or any of that.
It's a belief about humans. It's the recognition of the fact the humans are not all that perceptive or rational, and very inclined to believe false things due to illusions and delusions and just plain mistakes.
Especially when the belief bolsters our ego and community acceptance.
Tom