DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
All that shows me is your willful ignorance. People on here are much, much smarter than that, and with that statement of yours I will easily conclude that they are much smarter than you.
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Is any religion better than any other? Can any faith guarantee mental and spiritual uplift?
- Thread starter Indian Iconoclast
- Start date
All that shows me is your willful ignorance. People on here are much, much smarter than that, and with that statement of yours I will easily conclude that they are much smarter than you.
So even without checking who this Scholar is, we see using the weak Hadith he concedes the Qur'an as it is is complete.
Revelation outside of the Qur'an are some Hadiths narrated directly by Angel Gabriel. There is absolutely NOTHING to show anyone other than the Final Prophet of GOD received ANY divine revelation. This is wishful thinking on the part of 'some' Shias who maintain GOD made a mistake choosing Muhammad pbuh over his nephew Ali ra. Ali ra disowned people who started to raise his rank and even had them rounded up and killed. He was also the 4th Caliph and if he wanted to create a Qur'an with commentary, could easily have done so, but he added NOTHING to the Qur'an of his rival the 3rd Caliph Uthman ra.
If it's such a issue, push your Government to ban proselytising of the Islamic faith in your Country.
It means a Messenger was sent to every Nation, and we know 124,000 of them means no Nation can claim not to know about Monotheism. You stated your beliefs stem from Monotheism, yet today many following the Vedic traditions believe in Polytheism, with gods of love, war, creation etc
Without claiming to know too much, I would day Krishna was likely sent to teach about God, and after his death was made a god like Jesus pbuh and others.
How about some context and background information:
There were two parties claiming caliphate, the first is Ansar and second were the Quraysh. During Prophet's pbuh time, these two groups were one of the most respected groups in Arabia and had political influence. After the death of Prophet pbuh, there occurred a dispute amongst both the parties so as to who will have the Caliphate.
It’s to be noted that both the parties were equal when it came to services rendered to Islam, and both of them considered their claim to Caliphate on the basis on their services and not on the basis of tribe or descent as this is very clear from the speech of leader of Ansar, that is Sa’d Ibn ‘Ubadah ra which was delivered in the meeting of the Ansar in the Saqifah of Bani Sa’idah:
O party of the Ansar: “Your excellence with regards to your services to the religion of Islam is not the share of any other tribe in the whole of Arabia. The Prophet (sws) of God stayed among his folks more than a decade. He continued calling them to worship the Most Merciful and pleaded them to abandon their idols. None believed in his message except for a few. These few however did not have the power to protect the Messenger of God nor were they able to propagate his religion. They could not even defend themselves. This state of affairs remained until God intended to grant you excellence. He granted you respect and specifically chose you for his bounty. He bestowed upon you the ability to believe in Him and in His Messenger…Now the Messenger of God has departed for the next world while he was pleased with you. This is why you deserve the right to succeed him more than any other group. Hold this (khilafah) firmly.” Then all those present among the Ansar said: “What you have opined and expressed is right.”
– [Ibn Qutaybah, al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, vol. 1 (Cairo: Sharikatu Maktabati wa Matba’ati Mustafa al-Babi al-Halabi wa Awladihi, 1969), 5.]
Hence it is clear that the basis for claiming caliphate wasn’t racial or tribal but was based on the actions and services and both the parties believe themselves to have done fair, in regards to the services and hence were claiming the Caliphate.But then why did Abu Bakr ra say that the caliphate is for Quraysh only? Well, it’s due to various reasons which I'll state.
1) Quraysh were held high, and were respected throughout the lands.
2) People were accustomed to the rule of Quraysh since pre-Islamic times, due to the very authoritative and caring nature of Quraysh for their people.
3) After the death of Prophet Muḥammad pbuh, many tribes started revolting, in order take political control, hence in order to unite Muslims someone with great political influence was needed, which in turn would help in suppressing these revolts.
4) Quraysh were more knowledgeable in Islam then other Muslims at that point of time as they had spent more time with Prophet.They were teachers of the deen and taught deen so they were more respected amongst Muslims.
These are 4 basic reasons why Abu Bakr ra stated that Caliphate was only for Quraysh and these facts were well-know and were also acknowledged by the noble prophet.
It has been narrarted on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: People are subservient to the Quraish: the Muslims among them being subservient to the Muslims among them, and the disbelievers among the people being subservient to the disbelievers among them.
– [Sahīh al-Bukhārī, Bk. 20, no.4473]
If you have true Monotheism, what are Hindus worshipping the monkey god, the elephant god, rain god, money god, cow god etc etc
You haven't explained your beliefs yet have 'Spiritual Satanism' next to your name.
Islam teaches worship of GOD alone. We acknowledge all the previous Prophets of GOD.
Before commenting further, I note your source is the Epoch Times:
Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper [2] headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese-American Falun Gong practitioners.
Epoch Times - Wikipedia
No problem there, but what is a Falun Gong Practitioner? .....
Falun Gong /ˈfɑːluːnˈɡʊŋ/ or Falun Dafa /ˈfɑːluːnˈdɑːfɑː/ (Standard Mandarin Chinese: [fàlwə̌n tâfà]; literally, "Dharma Wheel Practice" or "Law Wheel Practice") is a modern Chinese spiritual practice that combines meditation and qigong exercises.
Falun Gong - Wikipedia
and here they are citing 10 cases of 'alleged' reincarnation. So let's look at the cases cited...
The first case:
In his book, “Children Who Have Lived Before: Reincarnation Today,” German therapist Trutz Hardo tells this boy’s story, along with other stories of children who seem to remember their past lives with verified accuracy. The boy’s story was witnessed by Dr. Eli Lasch, who is best known for developing the medical system in Gaza as part of an Israeli government operation in the 1960s. Dr. Lasch, who died in 2009, had recounted these astounding events to Hardo.
The boy was of the Druze ethnic group, and in his culture the existence of reincarnation is accepted as fact. His story nonetheless had the power to surprise his community.
The boy said he remembered being killed with an axe in his previous life. He showed village elders where his body was buried, where the murder weapon was buried, and he identified his killer. A body with a head wound was indeed found in the spot indicated, the axe was found, and the killer admitted what he had done.
There is not a single mention of this Murderer being brought to justice in any Newspaper, no mention of his name, when it happened etc, hardly credible for such a sensational story.
I'm not even going to go any further until you prove this actually happened outside conjecture and half truths.
Well continue in your psychic abilities and come back once you've actually contacted one of these Samsaric beings, and a Muslim or Christian will lay bare what's going on.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Overall, that was a pretty darn good post, @Muslim-UK
As a long time meditator I'd like to add that talk of so-called "subtle transmissions, psychic abilities and such" is not something, generally speaking, that well grounded practitioners of meditation would be inclined to claim.
proudpagan
Member
wew didnt know they got a lawyer too . Now this is seriously Topkek
proudpagan
Member
https://listverse.com/2017/04/17/top-10-unbelievable-ways-the-cia-experimented-with-psychic-powers/
And you keep worshipping a fake god in sky
proudpagan
Member
> There aint one size fit for all approach in spirituality . I dont know what meditations you do or your so called grounded practitioners .
proudpagan
Member
Nrration from al-Kafi, which indicates that the Qur'an had seventeen thousand verses. (nearly tripled of its current size).This narration has been dually rejected and justified as well . And I just said that certain of your moslem leaders claim to have 17k .
As a moslem you agree that quran is revelation of God . So tell me e b-ismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīmi بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful". ? The author of the book didnt write this because he cannot . This is infact a sentence without any verb !!!
Muh secular brigade will ****
> Krishna was not a messenger . Provide me citation Krishna was messenger of Allah .
> There is no english equivalent of sanskrit word Ishwara . Gods means Devtas aka elevated aliens who live on a higher planes of existence . Advanced beings .
Unlike the case of abrhamic faiths including yours , God cannot be limited to one founder or text born a few hundred years ago . He is rather here and now ever available to those who ardently seek him . We are well aware that truth lies far beyond what the mind can grasp . But at the same time this One God , One reality , One Personality can be revealed in a number of ways .
If there is one thing we can conclude from creation is that GOD loves diversity. No two people are exactly same , twins too have diffrent finger prints , there are millions of species of lifeforms , millions of galaxies , solar systems , stars , planets . The vast array of Gods and Goddesses are simply indicative of infinite nature of Divinity .
yes thats right . there could be false claims as well for publicity purpose . But there have been many real and true cases as well . But guess what where is the proof for judgement day ? It aint gonna happen dude . Creation and destruction is cyclic process of universe .
REVEALED: The scientific PROOF that shows reincarnation is REAL
In "Have We Really Lived Before?", Michael C. Pollack, Ph.D., CCHT describes his lower back pain, which grew steadily worse over the years and limited his activities. He believes he found out a possible reason during a series of past life therapy sessions: "I discovered that I had lived at least three prior lifetimes in which I had been killed by being knifed or speared in the low back. After processing and healing the past life experiences, my back began to heal."
Yet you cant marry their daughters and sisters . You are mawaii . You cant even get their citizenship dude
Good stories, and these days many people including Derren Brown can do similar things:
In the Abrahamic faith, are you aware of Solomon pbuh and the abilities GOD gave him?
You're confusing me, starting by saying, we stole the concept of Monotheism from you, then mocking us for worshipping GOD alone.
proudpagan
Member
The true meaning of the "Temple of Solomon" is the TEMPLE OF THE SUN. "Sol" "Om" and "On" are all words for the Sun. "Sol" is the Latin word for the Sun and is close to the English word "soul." "Om" is a name given by the Hindus to the Spiritual Sun and "On" is an Egyptian word for Sun. Its an allegory for Solar chakra . Again Stolen concept . Just like Ameen stolen from Egyptian Amon and Hindu Aum .
Where was your God in 10k BCE ?
already shown it was based off a weak hadith and history clearly shows it's nothing but a myth dreamt up later by some Shia Scholar.
The Prophet pbuh was told to recite/repeat/say after the Angel Gabriel pbuh, "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."
GOD is all powerful, all knowing, all present, He is ONE as you already agreed.
He has no Beginning, no End, Eternal, Immortal, Perfect, and there is nothing like Him, (we say Him out of respect, as God has no gender).
Would you agree with this? Let me know before I answer regarding Krishna.
124,000 Messengers sent would indicate knowledge of GOD goes back a little bit more than a few hundred years. I do however agree He has revealed Himself in a number of different ways, and I don't claim Islam is the only way.
GOD loves diversity indeed.
Vast array, yet not one has the ability to join us on Skype or Paltalk to answer a couple of simple questions. It is true there are indeed other forms of Creation scattered throughout the Cosmos, but they are not equal to GOD by a long shot.
The Abrahamic Religions rely on faith, we accept the unseen.
You on the other hand have cited people, who recalled being murdered, led police to the scene, uncovered the body and murder weapon, then identified the culprit who confessed, yet there is NO mention of this incredible story in the Media, and yes the printing press and journalism were used in that corner of the World.
And Creation (Big Bang) and Destruction, (Big Crunch) are mentioned in the Qur'an:
Big Bang:
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? Qur'an 21:30
Cosmic Gases:
Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." Qur'an 41:11
Expanding Universe:
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. Qur'an 51:47
Crunch:
The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it. Qur'an 21:104
Please this is getting embarrassing, the article cites one Dr Ian Stevenson whose mother followed the teachings of Madame Blavatsky.
He believed that he had produced a body of evidence for reincarnation that must be taken seriously. But he admitted that "the evidence is not flawless and it certainly does not compel such a belief. Even the best of it is open to alternative interpretations, and one can only censure those who say there is no evidence whatever."
The children he studied were from Sri Lanka, India and other Countries. Where possible he tried to interview young children under the age of 4 to exclude the possibility of outside 'influence', but this is flawed as my 3 year old daughter will tell you, Allah swt made her. I wonder where she learnt that from :/
Philosophically, Stevenson was a naive dualist. He believed that bodies and souls have separate evolutions and existences, and he seemed not to be concerned or aware of the philosophical problems that ensue from such claims about mind and body.
His dualism became stronger after he experimented with mescaline and LSD.
Those who studied him noted that, he was no expert on the problems of experimenter bias and expectancy bias in interrogation. Nor was he an expert in the languages and cultures where his stories originated, necessitating his use of translators whose flaws he was not qualified to observe or identify. He was not an expert on languages. Hiring a linguist to listen to a tape, as Stevenson did with the best of his xenoglossic reincarnates, was a good idea.
But he might have considered that Uttara Huddara, a Marathi woman in Mumbai (Bombay) who could speak Bengali, could have acquired her ability by natural means. In any case, it is not unusual for someone to speak several languages in a country that is populated by people from many language groups. Linguist Sarah Thomason noted that Bengali and Marathi are closely related languages, the woman had a life-long interest in Bengali language and culture, and had many Bengali acquaintances, and people in Bombay often see films that were made in Bengali.
The rest of Stevenson's cases, according to Thomason, involved people whose linguistic display was minimal and could be explained by casual exposure (Thomason 1987; Kelly 2004). A person may be able to utter 100 or so words in a non-native language, but that hardly counts as speaking or understanding that language. Stevenson listened to a tape where a woman uttered some German words while hypnotized but couldn't answer questions in German and didn't indicate any knowledge of grammar, and he declared this is evidence for reincarnation. He blamed her poor language skills on her poverty and illiteracy in a previous lifetime. A linguist listened to the same tape and noted that even the poor and the illiterate use some grammar. She declared that the woman's understanding of German was minimal and consistent with a casual acquaintance with the language (Kelly 2004: 95).
What possesses a man of Stevenson's intelligence to chase after chimeras and produce thousands of pages of detailed reports that amount to a heap of rationalizations? As Michael Shermer succinctly put it: "Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."
Full study here: Ian Stevenson - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Past life therapy sessions with who? A Indian Guru?
I'm happy married to someone from my own culture, and who wants to life in stifling heat? I've met many Arabs in my life and their hospitality and kindness has been second to none.
What are you 20 or something? Act your age if at all possible.
Right, anyway Suliman pbuh was given the ability to control the weather and the Jinn. You should study the Jinn to understand goddesses and gods are not what you think.
Same place he was 3 Billion B.C.E
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
An authentic form of meditation popularly known as TM. Been at it since 1974. Transcendental Meditation
That begs the question, "What form of recognized meditation do you do?"
proudpagan
Member
Kundalini yoga plus mantra vibrations into chakras . Runes as well . To sum it up I do a lot of meditations
proudpagan
Member
is Quran kalamullah my friend ? Is this bismillah al rahman al rahim kalamullah ?
Yes thats right . But your God sits on throne . Your God gets tired . Your God is not perfect because his knowledge keeps changing . Corruption occurs in his knowledge . First Torah then NT then quran and so on .
Mention me names of 124k messengers. And if God is everywhere why he needs messenger ?
Humans can not be equal to god unless they have attained higher state of consciousness.
Accepting the unseen is blatant superstition . Why has your God given you a brain and logic ? Unless you experience yourself . There have been true cases as well and Past life regression is real .
Shanti Devi - Wikipedia
> Big bang is still controversial . Quantum equation predicts universal is eternal . Exactly what vedas speak . https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html
> You just posted some verses . However Quran doesnt talk about big bang at all .
In a poetic sense, linking creation and destruction together might be meaningful. In a scientific sense, their juxtaposition in the text is irrelevant, because all that matters is whether or not the description of reality is accurate.the Qur'an doesn't accurately describe Big Bang theory. First, their use of word heavens doesnt appear to apply to universe . Heavens could be one of certain location in universe but it cant be concluded that heavens realistically represent entire universe.
Spirituality is way beyond Nationality .
<24
> Even least powerful yaksh or yakshani or devata was way moar powerful than so called suliman . I told you on the top of that , The story of solomon is just an allegory.
well how do you know ?
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osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
the concepts coming out of religion will outlast any religion itself. mercy, peace, compassion, love, care of souls, honor, justice, dharma, and all virtues, will guide one's subjective experience and motives. we need look no further then that authority, and look within ourselves and through others to discover the truth of them. they alone and together are the higher authority.
anyone can use knowledge fruitfully or violently. knowledge alone doesn't make anyone more deserving.
I made a list of 100 virtues or good qualities that are in the dictionary. and I dare say if anyone believed in all those virtues they'd come to the truth they seek.
truth is impartial , holds no favor of religion, or naturalism.
the only thing it cares about is the pure motive and intents of the heart. if everyone gave as deserving, according to heart intentions, we would see problems fall that have plagued humanity for centuries.
if the whole world was given to evil and you were the only one who cared about truth, then I dare say it's its own reward, and contentment and peace of conscience are its rewards, and even death or ceasing to exist will not bind you, even in the face of tragedy.
anyone can use knowledge fruitfully or violently. knowledge alone doesn't make anyone more deserving.
I made a list of 100 virtues or good qualities that are in the dictionary. and I dare say if anyone believed in all those virtues they'd come to the truth they seek.
truth is impartial , holds no favor of religion, or naturalism.
the only thing it cares about is the pure motive and intents of the heart. if everyone gave as deserving, according to heart intentions, we would see problems fall that have plagued humanity for centuries.
if the whole world was given to evil and you were the only one who cared about truth, then I dare say it's its own reward, and contentment and peace of conscience are its rewards, and even death or ceasing to exist will not bind you, even in the face of tragedy.
proudpagan
Member
Life as an experience is the essence of vedic dharma .
Beautiful rebuttal from the Scholar.
I already answered you.
Stick to the Qur'an. The previous Scriptures were revealed and overtime became corrupted because GOD entrusted the Jews and Christians to look after it themselves. Whereas the Qur'an is protected by GOD Himself.
There's nothing to learn from knowing all 124,000 of them by name. What's important is their teachings: Monotheism, worship GOD alone. What do you mean God is everywhere? That's your erroneous belief, not Islam's.
This lady uncoiled her serpent, activated her Chakras and opened her third eye, she now claims to be able to communicate directly with the higher Samsaric beings:
Sadly such people would run a mile rather than be questioned by someone from the Abrahamic Faiths. Let us know when you have reached her level of awakening, as I have a few questions to ask.
I'm still waiting for you to prove the story you presented as truth, that of the young boy who found his murderer from his past life. It's no good you keep posting in support of your position, let's see some evidence.
Science by its very nature will always have several hypothesis on any given subject, it can never be 100% true. It can only use available data, often limited at that to come up with the most plausible theory. As it stands Big Bang is the most widely accepted theory in the Science Community. I'm not here to argue about how one interprets certain words in the Qur'an, it's not a book of Science, rather it's a book of signs for people of understanding.
Post details of who the therapist was, so I can go and watch the recordings for myself.
Ok try to remember that, rather than posting nonsense.
Yes and you can prove that once you've managed to communicate with one of them. Archaeology has shown Prophet Suliman was real, and his Temple existed.
King Solomon's Wall Found—Proof of Bible Tale?
Found: Fresh Clues to Mystery of King Solomon's Mines
He is Eternal with no Beginning, so figure it out for yourself.
For which I'm still waiting evidence for. Axe murderer, little boy. Waiting
proudpagan
Member
Either of the scholar is a liar then .
Is Islam kalamullah ? Yes or No
Revelation of so many scriptures simply t proves that God is inconsistent. He changes His habits. How do you know Torah and Injil is corrupted ?
[Al-Qur’aan 2:23-24] The challenge of the Qur’aan, is to produce a single Soorah (chapter) like the Soorahs it contains. This is how allah is protecting quran . Well literature and poetry are instruments of HUMAN expression and creativity. This implies that the brilliance or mediocrity of a literary work can only be attributed to a HUMAN and not to some DIVINE entity.
The challenge builds on a flawed assumption that if no comparable work exists for a given work, then it must be Divine. By that logic, even Mona Lisa is from God and Meghadootam of Kalidas is the word of God because these masterpieces have no parallels. Right?
The biggest blunder of this challenge is that the author of the Quran was unaware of the almost zero structural impact of replacing nouns and pronouns with each other within certain statements/verses . For example, if we change “Muslims” with “kafirs” and “kafirs” with “Muslims” in any verse of the Quran, we would have created an ANTI-QURAN which matches exactly and undoubtedly with the Quran in literary excellence!!!
There's nothing to learn from knowing all 124,000 of them by name. What's important is their teachings: Monotheism, worship GO[D/QUOTE]
>Islam claims that Allah sent 124,000 prophets, while Allah claims in the Quran that He sent prophets to every people on earth. Yet, Allah mentions the names of only 25 prophets, some of them Jewish kings and warlords, and all of them sent to people only to Jews and Christians
This lady uncoiled her serpent, activated her Chakras and opened her third eye, she now claims to be able to communicate directly with the higher Samsaric beings:
There is no one size fits for all approach in spirituality . We all are individuals . We dont blindly believe a book compiled over a period of time . We think and act rationally individually .
>
Almost all books of Eastern philosophies refute the concept of one birth. They believe in life being a continuous cycle not interrupted by death. Its broadly termed the Theory of Karma.
Now if this were not true, why did God confuse minds of people who were born in Eastern part of the globe, from very childhood.
God has done great miracles in past including burning entire towns and villages, and giving birth to Jesus without need of a human father. If He can do so much, why did he not burn these books of East forever? After all He himself laid the criteria that those who refuse to believe in Jesus or Muhammad will go to Hell! Ideally he should have stopped the creation of these Eastern books in the first place!
Believers of unseen have no moral right to question on our logic . Ask
I already posted Shanti Devi case.
Then the verse says “that the heavens and earth were joined together, before We clove them asunder?” – This rustic imagination has nothing to do with the big bang. The earth was formed billions of years after the big bang!! And most importantly, earth was not parted from the universe, it is, was and will remain a part of the Universe!
As far as signs of Allah are concerned, the less said about them the better. An example of such a sign is the natural phenomenon of eclipse, that is well explained and understood by science. But in Islam, this very natural phenomenon is treated as a ‘sign’ of Allah!
That I dont know and I dont need . have you ever tried spirituallity ?
> Why are you worked up dude ? I have a counter for each of your lol arguments .
Adams bridge aka Ram Setu also existed . When did I say it could not ?
Thats not answer dude .
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The same central theme is found in the Torah, Injeel and Qur'an. GOD is ONE, worship HIM Alone. As for corruption, ask Western Scholars who've studied the Manuscripts, people like Professor Bart Ehrman,
No one in over 1,400 years has met the challenge.
As for other brilliant pieces of art and literature, did they claim to be revelation from GOD?
Well go ahead and do that, then see if it is perfectly balanced and rhythmic, whilst giving a coherent message for mankind.
Free will. Those Polytheists who have never heard of Monotheism or been told about Islam won't be held to account.
Past Nations were destroyed for their disbelief:
Similar situations [as yours] have passed on before you, so proceed throughout the earth and observe how was the end of those who denied. Qur'an 3:137
Within 100 years there will be more Monotheists in the East than Polytheists and that will help in educating the masses. Of course if Jesus pbuh returns before, then that process will happen rapidly ensuring the whole World worships One GOD alone.
People have known about that case for 40 years and to date NO EVIDENCE has been put forward.
Oh dear. The Big Bang theory supposes everything started from a singularity, where like a giant spring all matter and energy was compressed into a single point. Do you see, everything seen in the Universe was together before GOD parted them. There is nothing in that verse which contradicts Science.
Again Mother Nature conforms to the rules given by GOD. Thus a leaf falling of a tree or a eclipse is a sign from God.
My Spirituality comes from connecting with GOD, I do that through prayer, reading and listening to the Qur'an.
proudpagan
Member
But civilizations predated Torah.
That was not an answer . I will just replace “Muslims” with “kafirs” and “kafirs” with “Muslims” in any verse of the Quran.
> They dont but yours does.
Only because Polytheists let you preach your religion . But you dont . You are intolerant people . And believe me Polytheism will takeover . Because most of the moslem countries are surviving because of aids and support from kafir nations uwu.
Ian Stevenson found the Shanti devi case to be correct.He worked long and hard to find infallible evidences on this case and came up with some startling facts which established the veracity of shanti's claims.
Another important thing to note is how conveniently you want us to assume the word ‘heaven’ in the verse to mean ‘universe’. Unfortunately, despite this innovation, the verse turned out to be a scientific disaster and a non-revelation.
By the way, the Quranic heaven is a 7 storied building/canopy over the earth. Interestingly, not only the Quranic heaven but the Quranic earth has seven layers too (Quran 65:12 [Yusuf Ali] “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number.”
So, after having analyzed the evidence (verse 21:30) we find that Quranic model of universe is very much against established scientific facts but it’s in perfect sync with Judaic view of its time.
To be doubly sure that the ‘heaven’ of Quran is NOT the ‘universe’, we look at another verse which unambiguously states that the earth was created first and thereafter the heavens were created.
Quran 2:29 “He it is Who created for you all that is on earth.
Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things.
Now going by terminology,you get from this verse:
- a universe that was created after the earth was created !! (Allah had to rise over earth to reach the Universe…Enjoy the science!)
- a universe that was smoke while the earth was solid!!!
- a universe that was fragmented into 7 layers!!!
Now I must sharee with you the scientific understanding about earth’s shape and SIZE during the same time period (actually a century prior to) when the Quran was revealed. Aryabhatta was an Indian mathematician and wrote his treatise Aryabhatiya in 499 CE:
- Aryabhatta tells us that the Moon and planets shine by reflected sunlight and that the orbits of the planets are ellipses.
[The author of the Quran was unaware of the fact that all planets reflect sunlight ] - He also correctly explained the causes of eclipses of the Sun and the Moon.
[Muslims including the prophet [and many Hindus even today] used to pray during eclipses because they did not understand this natural phenomenon. They thought it to be one of Allah’s or God’s signs – Quran is after all a book of signs ] - His value for the length of the sidereal year at 365 days 6 hours 12 minutes 30 seconds is only 3 minutes 20 seconds longer than the true value of 365 days 6 hours 9 minutes 10 seconds.
[Now that’s what we call a substantial claim. Not something rustic like “we have divided the year into four seasons” kind of banal stuff] - He estimated the value of ‘Pi’ as: “Add four to one hundred, multiply by eight and then add sixty-two thousand. The result is approximately the circumference of a circle of diameter twenty thousand. By this rule the relation of the circumference to diameter is given.” In other words, Pi=62832/20000 = 3.1416, correct to four rounded-off decimal places.
[PI is needed for anybody who understands circles (forget about spheres). The author of the Quran didn’t have anything to opine in this regard in his ‘1000+ scientific verses”?] - Aryabhatta accurately calculated the Earth’s circumference as 24,835 miles, which was only 0.2% smaller than the actual value of 24,902 miles. This approximation remained the most accurate for over a thousand years [i.e. 100 years before Islam and 900 years after the advent of Islam !]