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Is America an extension of Rome

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
My grandfather, when he was 92 years old dictated a series of talks about the meaning of the Bible onto casset tapes to me. In these 4 and 5 hour talks we would forget even to eat or drink it was so interesting. I had studied and ventured into all the world's major religions intimately and was 39 years old at the time. Just in time to turn 40 i was assigned a task of investigation that led to these maps and charts ect.

I'm impressed, it's good that you have a serious religious background,..and thanks for sharing,..someone had done a lot of work.
 

dan b

Member
I'm impressed, it's good that you have a serious religious background,..and thanks for sharing,..someone had done a lot of work.


But it's almost time to set up these ideas more clearly, They are indeed documented on the charts and maps, but a lot more is there also. It's because at this point it's just for the very interested to go through and pick out the parts that interest them or that they understand. It's not quite "unsealed" yet.

Over another winter i already have the plans to describe these ideas again in only 200 pages and more simply and clealy. This would introduce a lot more intrest. But i am not called to preach. Even general association with people is not at all my calling. I have lived many years isolated with my wife in the mountains of Canada. I am fine with life and arn't cut out to talk, explain or cooperated with people. i am designed to be alone with the natural world, thinking. What i'm saying is with people i put my foot in my mouth. Without people i am as a wild deer or bear, just fine. So i'll continue to follow my given nature and live in peace.

But maybe i will write it out more clearly. Maybe i wouldn't. Every day more information now is coming in, more mists are clearing. After all, the seal which hid the truth are now opened!

Tell me anything about this that you think i might not know. I'll do the same. It will be a good exchange for both of us. cheers dan b

ps. today i'll make sketches of the beasts and try to follow your logic. I can't wait!
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
But it's almost time to set up these ideas more clearly, They are indeed documented on the charts and maps, but a lot more is there also. It's because at this point it's just for the very interested to go through and pick out the parts that interest them or that they understand. It's not quite "unsealed" yet.

Over another winter i already have the plans to describe these ideas again in only 200 pages and more simply and clealy. This would introduce a lot more intrest. But i am not called to preach. Even general association with people is not at all my calling. I have lived many years isolated with my wife in the mountains of Canada. I am fine with life and arn't cut out to talk, explain or cooperated with people. i am designed to be alone with the natural world, thinking. What i'm saying is with people i put my foot in my mouth. Without people i am as a wild deer or bear, just fine. So i'll continue to follow my given nature and live in peace.

But maybe i will write it out more clearly. Maybe i wouldn't. Every day more information now is coming in, more mists are clearing. After all, the seal which hid the truth are now opened!

Tell me anything about this that you think i might not know. I'll do the same. It will be a good exchange for both of us. cheers dan b

ps. today i'll make sketches of the beasts and try to follow your logic. I can't wait!

Good for you, may God's blessings and grace guide and support you always.
Yes, we can exchange opinions as the unfoldment process continues.

So as a matter of possible interest if you are inclined, in the context of my understanding of Dan. 11:45, I first give you a link to a site containing bible interpretation that main stream Christianity and many of the Jewish faith appear to believe provides prophetic support for the establishment of the present Zionist orchestrated state if Israel.

10 Bible prophecies fulfilled recently

Now if this really was God's plan, then the establishment of the beasts outpost (Dan.11:45) and its destruction is completed and Judgement has already occurred, or, it is yet to happen. Now since Christ's coming and Judgement has not happened, we can know that the Dan. 11:45 prophecy is not complete, and is yet to be completed. So then why would God have His people return only to have it invaded by the beast?

So here are are some of links that appear to support my understanding that the present Zionist state called Israel is not the prophesied one as most Christian and Jews believe, but the proxy outpost of the King of the North/Europe/USA/Zionism of Daniel 11:45 and hence the fulfillment of preconditions for its destruction prior to the appearance of Christ and Judgement of Daniel 12.

Zionists Do Not Represent Jews

Why is the World Jewry Opposed to the Zionist State

Please feel free to challenge any aspect of my present understanding where you find errors.
 

dan b

Member
Good for you, may God's blessings and grace guide and support you always.
Yes, we can exchange opinions as the unfoldment process continues.

So as a matter of possible interest if you are inclined, in the context of my understanding of Dan. 11:45, I first give you a link to a site containing bible interpretation that main stream Christianity and many of the Jewish faith appear to believe provides prophetic support for the establishment of the present Zionist orchestrated state if Israel.

10 Bible prophecies fulfilled recently

Now if this really was God's plan, then the establishment of the beasts outpost (Dan.11:45) and its destruction is completed and Judgement has already occurred, or, it is yet to happen. Now since Christ's coming and Judgement has not happened, we can know that the Dan. 11:45 prophecy is not complete, and is yet to be completed. So then why would God have His people return only to have it invaded by the beast?

So here are are some of links that appear to support my understanding that the present Zionist state called Israel is not the prophesied one as most Christian and Jews believe, but the proxy outpost of the King of the North/Europe/USA/Zionism of Daniel 11:45 and hence the fulfillment of preconditions for its destruction prior to the appearance of Christ and Judgement of Daniel 12.

Zionists Do Not Represent Jews

Why is the World Jewry Opposed to the Zionist State

Please feel free to challenge any aspect of my present understanding where you find errors.

About this part of this verse;
"..........yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." Dan.11;45

This has not occured yet. It is written in Dan.11;45 saying it shall occure in the future. Perhaps it shall occur during this "hour of temptation" which we are living in right now.(40 yrs.) Just because it is written in Dan.11;45 does not mean it happens right then. It hasn't happened, yet it may have happend but they don't know it yet. The king of the north is as the "emperor with no cloths" at this exact time and will only find out that they are naked when they attempt to exersize their power. Because both the beast and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire in Rev.19;20 so how can the "beast" have power.

The king of the north is both the beast with the wound along with the false prophet of Rev.13;11 He has two horns which match Jesus reducing the ten laws to two laws of the lamb. (Love God and your brother) (horns are laws in the bible)

Now, this is the point that most will not accept without further reasearch. The "son of man" is indeed those glorious modern generations of people who sit upon their throne of glory and prosperity today. It is the accomplished Christian first world. It occured because the people established Christian governments and this made fertile environment for social and technical advancement. Thats what Rev.21;24 is saying.

If you study all of Christ's usages of the term "son of man" you can see that Jesus accomplished his mission as a correspondent example of what we as his followers as Christian civilization would do. We, alike to him are today being killed. The Christian churches and people's enthusiasm is near dead. Their bodies, which are the churches, lie empty, dead on the streets. Rev.11;8

The son of man came when the Christian nations acceived mankind's glory by overcoming the restictions of nature. This is what Jesus's predictions for the son of man were. The son of man shall travel on the clouds of heaven in airplanes he said. The sign of the son of man shall be in the sky because airplanes are shaped like a cross.

In that day of glory for the Christian nations the son of man shall communicate from the rooftops to all the world with tvs and radio and satilite. Jesus said all this but we in the first world today are so overconditioned with modernity which we grew up knowing that we don't think it's enough. Our Amerian Christians want supernatual effects and beasts with dragons and giant scorpions invading the planet. The Bible speaks in parables and metaphor so only the commited can really understand it's ideas.

So the son of man has arrived in all his glory. Now we have to finish this most terrible hour of temptation when so many will be tempted to abandone both their Christian heritage and common decency and conscience themselves. But as Dan.12;1 says Michael the archangel will be here under Christs command to protect us. That is where we stand today. There are so many ways this is shown in the Holy Bible.

Whether this temple falls and no one will help him in a short while, or whether it is already fallen but no one has yet pushed them to see if the're still standing is the question. But the verse of Dan.12;1 and the verse of Rev.20;1 both have begun i would say. So, Your turn when you have time.

ps. i still need to draw the sevenheaded beast and his friends to follow your logic. All day today i have had guys talking to me about these subjects and it very good for all of us. dan b
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
About this part of this verse;
"..........yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." Dan.11;45

This has not occured yet. It is written in Dan.11;45 saying it shall occure in the future. Perhaps it shall occur during this "hour of temptation" which we are living in right now.(40 yrs.) Just because it is written in Dan.11;45 does not mean it happens right then. It hasn't happened, yet it may have happend but they don't know it yet. The king of the north is as the "emperor with no cloths" at this exact time and will only find out that they are naked when they attempt to exersize their power. Because both the beast and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire in Rev.19;20 so how can the "beast" have power.

The king of the north is both the beast with the wound along with the false prophet of Rev.13;11 He has two horns which match Jesus reducing the ten laws to two laws of the lamb. (Love God and your brother) (horns are laws in the bible)

Now, this is the point that most will not accept without further reasearch. The "son of man" is indeed those glorious modern generations of people who sit upon their throne of glory and prosperity today. It is the accomplished Christian first world. It occured because the people established Christian governments and this made fertile environment for social and technical advancement. Thats what Rev.21;24 is saying.

If you study all of Christ's usages of the term "son of man" you can see that Jesus accomplished his mission as a correspondent example of what we as his followers as Christian civilization would do. We, alike to him are today being killed. The Christian churches and people's enthusiasm is near dead. Their bodies, which are the churches, lie empty, dead on the streets. Rev.11;8

The son of man came when the Christian nations acceived mankind's glory by overcoming the restictions of nature. This is what Jesus's predictions for the son of man were. The son of man shall travel on the clouds of heaven in airplanes he said. The sign of the son of man shall be in the sky because airplanes are shaped like a cross.

In that day of glory for the Christian nations the son of man shall communicate from the rooftops to all the world with tvs and radio and satilite. Jesus said all this but we in the first world today are so overconditioned with modernity which we grew up knowing that we don't think it's enough. Our Amerian Christians want supernatual effects and beasts with dragons and giant scorpions invading the planet. The Bible speaks in parables and metaphor so only the commited can really understand it's ideas.

So the son of man has arrived in all his glory. Now we have to finish this most terrible hour of temptation when so many will be tempted to abandone both their Christian heritage and common decency and conscience themselves. But as Dan.12;1 says Michael the archangel will be here under Christs command to protect us. That is where we stand today. There are so many ways this is shown in the Holy Bible.

Whether this temple falls and no one will help him in a short while, or whether it is already fallen but no one has yet pushed them to see if the're still standing is the question. But the verse of Dan.12;1 and the verse of Rev.20;1 both have begun i would say. So, Your turn when you have time.

ps. i still need to draw the sevenheaded beast and his friends to follow your logic. All day today i have had guys talking to me about these subjects and it very good for all of us. dan b

Just a quick response for now..

Yes, "..........yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." has not happened yet.

The hour of temptation? ...not sure about the period but the fulfillment is coming.

I've never thought of Rev.21.24 and much of else you mentioned as referring to happenings in this world, if I understand you correctly. I will need more time to consider this as it is my present understanding that the destiny of those souls who are worthy for union with the spirit is the spirit for God is spirit. And this world is systemically corrupt and beyond self redemption, I imagine it is just like it was in the days of Noah before the deluge.

It is also my present understanding that the events of Dan 12, while no doubt already beginning to unfold in the spiritual domain, have not manifested yet in this world so as to be recognized as such. I am expecting the disappearance of modern day state of Israel and the world to be engulfed in nuclear war before too much longer,..armageddon!

ps. put a pin or two through the seventh head of that seven headed beast you drew to help put it out of its misery dan b :)
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
America is indeed the last representative of the Roman empire. It is pictured in the bible as modern Babylon to represent the northern empire that oppressed Judah in the past. It is also pictured as modern Egypt to represent the southern empire that oppressed Judah in the past.Eze17. This leads you then to understand that the true house of Judah represents the descndants of Black slaves from plantation slavery who were sold in bondage to white Europeans ancestors of white America (Joel 3:6)and who got scttered in the Americas andthe West Indies. The scritures say that 4 horns of those European Gentiles were responsible for the scattering of Judah. They are The Spanish, The French, The English and the Portuguese Zec 1:21. Now you can understand why Christ says in Rev2: 9 and Rev 3:9 that those who say they are Jews(from Judah) but are not and who do lie. Again many of the so-called Jews are Israelis from the northern tribes of the House of Israel that went into captivity to the north and got mixed with the white Europeans. They are not from Judah. That's why it is written in Hoea 11:12" Ephraim(house of the North) compasses me about with lies and the house of Israel with deceit".Again there are 2 mysteries that need to be understood: the mystery of Israel and the mystery of Babylon in order to discern the truth about USA. E-mail me or call me at 321 285 7237
I hope to hear from you soon

Babylon is Babylon. It has nothing to do with Rome, the EU, or America. You can make Hitler look like a saint the way most people interpret bible prophecy!
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
No, the United States is the false prophet that sets up an image to the beast. See Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

The false prophet will come out of Islam. The two horns represent the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam. Two horns, "like a lamb," are two sects similar to Christianity.
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
We sit here arguing religion. Alex Jones and his crowd argue globalization. Al Gore and his cronies argue carbon taxes. Abortion. Gay marriages. Gun control. AIDS in Africa. Health care. Britney Spears. Every problem is the same problem, and nobody is going to act until it is too late...

No, America is not an extension of Rome; America is Rome, and Rome must burn. Convergence is pushing all towards chaos, war is inevitable, and once the shooting starts, the jackals will turn upon themselves. Fingers will be pointed, wrongs will be exposed, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth... if we only knew... something could have been done... They know. They are planning. And when the world is burning, and when the common man, cannot tell right from wrong; cannot tell up from down... They will unleash their master stroke... a conspiracy two thousand years in the making... one "ordinary man" will suddenly rise from the confusion... turn against the money interests, the greedy, the exploiters, one man will assume the title we have been programmed to trust - Jesus Christ.

The Vatican will fall, and They will own the world. Call me Lucifer. You have been warned. Trust no one. :cool:

America is Rome??? Go back to school!
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
America is the end of the Roman Empire which in Dan.7;4-7 is the 4th beast. It devours with Americas overconsumption and it tramples doun and destroys with it's pollution. dan b

Pollution??? America is America. How simple it is for people to mis-interpret God's Holy Word!
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
I think I put this thread up and just forgot about it. So the other beasts does everyone agree on- The lion with wings- Babylon (like the one on there gates), The Bear raised up on one side (Media-Persia) presumably because one was stronger than the other. The leapord w/ 4 wings and four heads- Greece, for wings- speed taking over the world,(or possibly directions of conquest?) four heads- four governors appointed by Alexander to rule after him....

I say chapter 7 isn't a historical repeat of chapter 2. Why would God find it necessary to repeat any vision by the same author? Why repeat the same sequence of kingdoms of Daniel 2 in chapter 7? Were there shortcomings in Daniel 2 that required repetition? Interpreters say that the Lion of Daniel 7 is Babylon.

How can the lion be Babylon when the date of the vision occurred in the first year of Belshazzar who was the last king of Babylon? The Babylonian Empire had already risen decades before and was on it's way out when Daniel 7 was written! Why would Daniel prophesy about a kingdom that was already in existence for about 50 years and soon to end? Some atheist have actually caught onto this blunder and used it to debunk the bible by calling Daniel a false prophet which he would certainly be, since he prophesied about something already in existence.

A PROPHET CANNOT PROPHESY ABOUT SOMETHING ALREADY IN EXISTENCE WITHOUT TRULY BEING A FALSE PROPHET!

Most interpreters think that the vision of wings being plucked off and the heart of a man given to it refers to Nebuchadnezzar going mad and being restored 7 years later. That's unlikely since that happened about 20 years before Daniel had the vision! AGAIN! Daniel cannot prophesy about something that already occurred! The lion could certainly be today's Iraq. The wings being plucked off could represent the U.S. military leaving Iraq. Some people think maybe it's England. But it can't be ancient Babylon. The four beast of Daniel 7 are all end time empires.

The vision of these four beast are figurative of 4 end time kingdoms competing to dominate the region around the Mediterranean. The word 'before' in 7:7 says that this beast "was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

The Hebrew word for "before" in this text is ‘qodam’ which means "in front of, in the presence of, not "historically before" as is commonly interpreted. This means the first three empires will be in the presence of (or stand before) the anti-Christ kingdom when it emerges. They are all end-time kingdoms.
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
Thanks, yes agree, I was already aware of the correlation with the four kingdoms and the statue of gold, silver, bronze, and iron. Again the iron and clay is the little horn...

The list of kingdoms in Daniel 2 go as follows.

1. Babylon

2. Medes

3. Persia

4. Greece.

The Persian Empire wasn't inferior to Babylon. Only the Median Empire was....and was prophesied to take out Babylon anyway.

Daniel, Isaiah's, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Medes.

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath
raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against
Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance
of his temple.

Daniel 8:3 explains the inferior kingdom and quotes the little horn coming from Grecia.
 
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kaoticprofit

Active Member
"Iron and clay" is what America is composed of. Two power structures, the beast of Rev.13;3 and 13;11.

Absolutely not true. The

The word mixed used to describe the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It means mixed and it denotes an Arabian or Arabia. (Gesenius) I would like to know how people associate this word with ROME, ITALY, or America!?

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Now explain to me...

How is America divided, not cleaved to one another, partly strong and partly broken, and intermarried, i.e. "mixed (arab) with the seed of men???
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
Yes, "Iron and clay" are also the two horns of the second beast, but there are other clues. Please also note, the two houses that form the USA government, congress and senate, the two political parties who alternately rule, republicans and democrats. And note also that the term senate and senators of US government are derived from the senate and senators of Rome, while Democracy and Republic are terms derived from the ancient Greeks, so the USA government is built in the image of the earlier heads of the beast of Rev.13.3.

The two horned beast is the religious aspect of the end-time demonic duo. It has nothing to do with America. America isn't Babylon. Babylon is Babylon and Babylon gave birth to all false religions. Islam is Babylon the Great!

The verse should read....

ISLAM, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF JIHADIST AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
We have a similiar legal system, calander and came from Europe. Do you think we are the fourth beast in Daniel.

Of course not.
the Beasts of the Bible do not represent nations. the Beasts are the evil people, who may live in Europe, America, Asia...everywhere.
These people almost always join big groups...that's why the good-haters become powerful.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Is America an extension of Rome

We have a similiar legal system, calander and came from Europe. Do you think we are the fourth beast in Daniel.
Not the fourth beast in absolute terms...but an aspect or extension of the fourth east...the US is the little horn that uprooted three of the ten horns of the fourth beast...
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
Not the fourth beast in absolute terms...but an aspect or extension of the fourth east...the US is the little horn that uprooted three of the ten horns of the fourth beast...

You impress me ben d. You've been trying to correctly interpret God's Prophetic Word, yet you erroneously identify, and blame, Rome and/or the U.S. when NOT ONE verse implies such a thing.

Maybe you can explain to the forum how the U.S. is the little horn when Daniel 8, 10, and 11 say he/it would emerge from the geographical area of the Grecian empire.

Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Strange too is that the word 'horn' is the word 'qeren' and comes from the word 'qaran' which means, "to shine. or to send out beams."

More coincidence I suppose.
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
Of course not.
the Beasts of the Bible do not represent nations. the Beasts are the evil people, who may live in Europe, America, Asia...everywhere.
These people almost always join big groups...that's why the good-haters become powerful.

Depending on the verse, a beast can imply and animal, a man, a kingdom, or a man with a kingdom!...

Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain.

In Revelation, a beast typically comprises of both man and kingdom. i.e. heads and horns....a beast with a kingdom.
 
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