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Is America an extension of Rome

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Idk, because whether you think it will happen or not the vision have a definite structure and symbolism. And are expressed in a pretty clear way although the meaning might be harder to grasp. I've heard drug addicts speak and it was all over the place. Do modern day drug addicts really describe seeing things like John saw???
 

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
Depends on the drug, of course ;)

Mushrooms might explain it, if you remember that he was exiled by Rome, and thus, rather ******* about it.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Idk, because whether you think it will happen or not the vision have a definite structure and symbolism. And are expressed in a pretty clear way although the meaning might be harder to grasp. I've heard drug addicts speak and it was all over the place. Do modern day drug addicts really describe seeing things like John saw???

For what it's worth I've spent two years in a halfway house for manic-depression, diagnosed with schizophrenic disorders and I've done alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, LSD, speed, cocaine, crack and ecstasy. I've snorted 15 Two-Ways and swallowed as much in a single night with a case of beer. I've seen and experienced **** that had fellow recovering users tell me that I was too creepy because of my mental illness and they declared they were afraid of me.

Ask me.

My experience is that I've been sorely unimpressed with the spiritual insights of drug use given my own vast experience. The notion of alternate experience due to mental illness or drug inducement is highly overrated. Overrated to the point that I would say that most people claiming such experience are full of ****. I will admit that this is a sore point with me.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Early North American society gained it's heritage from settlers mostly from England and France who claimed large chunks of it. Spain and Portugal did the same in South America. Borders between the two were some what fluid.
Over time many other nationals have settled in particular areas. This pattern is reflected in the nature of the states today.
In none of them are any aspects the Roman civilisation particularly prominent. The Law in north America is based on English common law which itself is only lightly influenced by Rome, and perhaps more so by Scandinavian and Germanic/Saxon ideas, which were hardly touched by Rome at all.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
Idk, because whether you think it will happen or not the vision have a definite structure and symbolism. And are expressed in a pretty clear way although the meaning might be harder to grasp. I've heard drug addicts speak and it was all over the place. Do modern day drug addicts really describe seeing things like John saw???
The traditional interpretations of the meaning of Revelation are that it is referring to Rome and the Emperor - Caesar Nero is the Beast with the 666 mark on his chest. During the time of writing, any sort of criticism of the Empire or the emperor - who was considered a god to be worshipped, would have been a capital crime.

What is significant to me regarding the OP question is that the U.S. of A. has developed into a world empire along a similar path that Rome followed. Rome started as a republic, and was reluctant at first to expand outside of Italy, because the original model for their nation required that additional territories become new states of the Republic, and the people automatically be granted citizenship. When Rome started expanding around the Mediterranean, they dropped that model and started taking new colonies and protectorates. Defending the colonies required maintaining a large, expensive army that was fighting continually to either defend their conquests or take new territories.

Okay! So the modern United States hasn't made the formal transition to empire, but the real facts on the ground are that since WWII, the U.S. has pursued a deliberate path of economic colonization and displacing European interests wherever possible from their former colonies in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. And, of course they decided 50 years ago that the entire Americas are their backyard....under the excuse of fighting Communism back in the 60's, but they still have their proxy dictators, bankers and agribusiness interests in most of Latin America today.

And as with Rome, America appears to be an empire that is about to collapse under the weight of the costs of controlling an empire. The time is coming soon when the U.S.'s gargantuan military can no longer be supported by the U.S. tax base. What comes after....who knows! Maybe we're heading into another dark ages!
 

dan b

Member
We have a similiar legal system, calander and came from Europe. Do you think we are the fourth beast in Daniel.


Yes, because we retain the Eagle. Daniel's four beast represent four kingdoms as it says in the Bible. The Lion, Ox and the face of a man are the first three. The Eagle therefore is the last kingdom. It streaches from Rome/eagle through Germany's eagle to America's Eagle. This is how we can see that America is still a part of the 4th kingdom forecast in the book of Daniel.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
We have a similiar legal system, calander and came from Europe. Do you think we are the fourth beast in Daniel.

Imho USA is the little horn of the fourth beast of Daniel...

The fourth beast with a head of ten horns is western Europe and the ten horns are the ten kingdoms that were predominately responsible for the European colonization, exploitation, and domination of the diverse and scattered nations, peoples, tribes, and resources of the world, i.e. England, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, and Austria.

Note in in Daniel 7:8 “I considered the (ten) horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”

This little horn is the USA with the President as head. Prior to becoming a single nation, the present land that now constitutes the mainland US states belonged to three of the horns of the fourth beast, the Spain, France and England. As we know from history, the three big horns were sent packing, and the little horn went on to dominate them. After the second world war, the little horn became leader (militarily) of all of western Europe….until now. In fact, the USA is considered the only super power on Earth, economically and militarily.

However there are changes underfoot in this regard and hence the prophecy of Daniel concerning the little horn is of interest to those who pay attention.

And btw, the little horn of Daniel is represented by the second beast that had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon of Revelation 13:11

map1750.gif
 

dan b

Member
The fourth beast was the Eagle. Each beast is said to be an Empire. The Eagle of Christiandom is in power today just as forecast!

The American Eagle is part of it too.

ChapterSeventeen%20(1).jpg
 

dan b

Member
Imho USA is the little horn of the fourth beast of Daniel...

The fourth beast with a head of ten horns is western Europe and the ten horns are the ten kingdoms that were predominately responsible for the European colonization, exploitation, and domination of the diverse and scattered nations, peoples, tribes, and resources of the world, i.e. England, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, and Austria.

Note in in Daniel 7:8 “I considered the (ten) horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”

This little horn is the USA with the President as head. Prior to becoming a single nation, the present land that now constitutes the mainland US states belonged to three of the horns of the fourth beast, the Spain, France and England. As we know from history, the three big horns were sent packing, and the little horn went on to dominate them. After the second world war, the little horn became leader (militarily) of all of western Europe….until now. In fact, the USA is considered the only super power on Earth, economically and militarily.

However there are changes underfoot in this regard and hence the prophecy of Daniel concerning the little horn is of interest to those who pay attention.

And btw, the little horn of Daniel is represented by the second beast that had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon of Revelation 13:11

map1750.gif



I don't know if you understand the full Biblical theory behind it, but everything you say above is correct! Even Rev.13;11, that is the power of the American Christian Lobby today. see chapter 13 and 16 in www.christianidentityrevealed2012.com
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
The fourth beast was the Eagle. Each beast is said to be an Empire. The Eagle of Christiandom is in power today just as forecast!

The American Eagle is part of it too.

Hi dan b, agreed that the USA is a part of the fourth beast but how do you get an Eagle out of this description of the fourth beast from the Book of Daniel Chapter 7....

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.


The fourth Beast with ten horns is definitely imperial Europe, but the little horn which came later and overthrew three of the ten horns to gain supremacy, that is the USA with a common man as President,...imho...

It is reasonable and useful to use other and earlier interpretations as an aid to help gain clarity as to what it means, but keep your mind open so as not to block further clarification. Revelation is ongoing for those with 'eyes' to see...
 

dan b

Member
Hi dan b, agreed that the USA is a part of the fourth beast but how do you get an Eagle out of this description of the fourth beast from the Book of Daniel Chapter 7....

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

The fourth Beast with ten horns is definitely imperial Europe, but the little horn which came later and overthrew three of the ten horns to gain supremacy, that is the USA with a common man as President,...imho...

It is reasonable and useful to use other and earlier interpretations as an aid to help gain clarity as to what it means, but keep your mind open so as not to block further clarification. Revelation is ongoing for those with 'eyes' to see...


Lucky i can put a chart on this forum. I would never be able to fully explain this quickly with words. The "four beasts" are carried over from Daniel to John's book of Revelation. Much more from Daniel is spoken of in Revelation and if you don't know that it is from the book of Daniel then you will not be able to understand the full contest of parts of Revelation. Daniel and Revelation are needed together. The book of Revelations has opened up much of the meaning of the book of Daniel for Christians. Hers is some information how the two are connected. But if you continue to study this it goes on very far and when you understand it you will always see further about these things than the present day conventional Bible scholors. Most of them are still studying things as there were understood in the dark before the year 2000AD. Now the seals are broken and Daniel's mysteries are opened. Dan.12;4

ChapterNineteen%20(1).jpg
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
:bow:
I don't know if you understand the full Biblical theory behind it, but everything you say above is correct! Even Rev.13;11, that is the power of the American Christian Lobby today. see chapter 13 and 16 in www.christianidentityrevealed2012.com

Hi dan b, I hadn't noticed this post when I responded to your earlier post, I will have a read.

Lucky i can put a chart on this forum. I would never be able to fully explain this quickly with words. The "four beasts" are carried over from Daniel to John's book of Revelation. Much more from Daniel is spoken of in Revelation and if you don't know that it is from the book of Daniel then you will not be able to understand the full contest of parts of Revelation. Daniel and Revelation are needed together. The book of Revelations has opened up much of the meaning of the book of Daniel for Christians. Hers is some information how the two are connected. But if you continue to study this it goes on very far and when you understand it you will always see further about these things than the present day conventional Bible scholors. Most of them are still studying things as there were understood in the dark before the year 2000AD. Now the seals are broken and Daniel's mysteries are opened. Dan.12;4

ChapterNineteen%20(1).jpg

Thanks, yes agree, I was already aware of the correlation with the four kingdoms and the statue of gold, silver, bronze, and iron. Again the iron and clay is the little horn...

One thing to add though, I also am presently of the opinion that the King of the North of Daniel 11 correlates with the fourth beast. If I'm right, then what happens in 11:45 is the penultimate event prior to the judgement of Daniel 12.

Note that the present state was set up by the UN after WWII and so is a proxy of the European/USA imperial power, i.e. fourth beast.

It is near...
 

dan b

Member
:bow:

Hi dan b, I hadn't noticed this post when I responded to your earlier post, I will have a read.



Thanks, yes agree, I was already aware of the correlation with the four kingdoms and the statue of gold, silver, bronze, and iron. Again the iron and clay is the little horn...

One thing to add though, I also am presently of the opinion that the King of the North of Daniel 11 correlates with the fourth beast. If I'm right, then what happens in 11:45 is the penultimate event prior to the judgement of Daniel 12.

Note that the present state was set up by the UN after WWII and so is a proxy of the European/USA imperial power, i.e. fourth beast.

It is near...


Well ben d you're the first guy on these forums who seems to be saying the same things i have found. I hope this continues, you already made me aware of how the English, French and Spanish fit as the three horns who the little horn/USA overcame.

Now you say that the "king of the north" is those who rule America. This is true. I have much information showing it. Yes, it seems that the fourth beast is also the king of the north. The king of the south in those same verses is Islam. The verses of Dan.11;40 to 11;45 also describe the Persian Gulf War when Iraq pushed against the north by invading Kuwait.

Dan.12;1 begins after the year 2000AD. This verse begins the "hour of temptation" which when calculated means 40 years. Just as the Old Testament had 40 years of temtation in the desert, so too the New Covenant from 2000 to 2040AD. But jesus will help us during this time because the verse says "Michal will stand up at this time." Jesus said in Rev.3;10 that he would help us during this time.

"Iron and clay" is what America is composed of. Two power structures, the beast of Rev.13;3 and 13;11.

I realize that i am just skipping through these ideas because each one has it's own calculations to understand it. Just getting us farmiliar. You are teaching me things with our talking. thanks dan b
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Well ben d you're the first guy on these forums who seems to be saying the same things i have found. I hope this continues, you already made me aware of how the English, French and Spanish fit as the three horns who the little horn/USA overcame.

Now you say that the "king of the north" is those who rule America. This is true. I have much information showing it. Yes, it seems that the fourth beast is also the king of the north. The king of the south in those same verses is Islam. The verses of Dan.11;40 to 11;45 also describe the Persian Gulf War when Iraq pushed against the north by invading Kuwait.

Dan.12;1 begins after the year 2000AD. This verse begins the "hour of temptation" which when calculated means 40 years. Just as the Old Testament had 40 years of temtation in the desert, so too the New Covenant from 2000 to 2040AD. But jesus will help us during this time because the verse says "Michal will stand up at this time." Jesus said in Rev.3;10 that he would help us during this time.

"Iron and clay" is what America is composed of. Two power structures, the beast of Rev.13;3 and 13;11.

I realize that i am just skipping through these ideas because each one has it's own calculations to understand it. Just getting us farmiliar. You are teaching me things with our talking. thanks dan b

Yes, "Iron and clay" are also the two horns of the second beast, but there are other clues. Please also note, the two houses that form the USA government, congress and senate, the two political parties who alternately rule, republicans and democrats. And note also that the term senate and senators of US government are derived from the senate and senators of Rome, while Democracy and Republic are terms derived from the ancient Greeks, so the USA government is built in the image of the earlier heads of the beast of Rev.13.3.

Now on to Dan. 11:45, there are different translations around, these are typical...

Contemporary English Version 11:45 After this, he will set up camp between the Mediterranean Sea and Mount Zion. Then he will be destroyed, and no one will be able to save him.

King James Version 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Good News Translation 11:45 He will even set up his huge royal tents between the sea and the mountain on which the Temple stands. But he will die, with no one there to help him.”


Now commentaries generally agree that the holy mountain/Mt Zion/mountain on which the temple sits, refers to Jerusalem and the sea is the the Mediterranean.

So here are some leading questions...

Was the land between Jerusalem and the sea invaded/occupied by any outsiders in the 20th century until now?

Who gave authority for this land to be invaded/occupied?
 

dan b

Member
Yes, "Iron and clay" are also the two horns of the second beast, but there are other clues. Please also note, the two houses that form the USA government, congress and senate, the two political parties who alternately rule, republicans and democrats. And note also that the term senate and senators of US government are derived from the senate and senators of Rome, while Democracy and Republic are terms derived from the ancient Greeks, so the USA government is built in the image of the earlier heads of the beast of Rev.13.3.

Now on to Dan. 11:45, there are different translations around, these are typical...

Contemporary English Version 11:45 After this, he will set up camp between the Mediterranean Sea and Mount Zion. Then he will be destroyed, and no one will be able to save him.

King James Version 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Good News Translation 11:45 He will even set up his huge royal tents between the sea and the mountain on which the Temple stands. But he will die, with no one there to help him.”

Now commentaries generally agree that the holy mountain/Mt Zion/mountain on which the temple sits, refers to Jerusalem and the sea is the the Mediterranean.

So here are some leading questions...

Was the land between Jerusalem and the sea invaded/occupied by any outsiders in the 20th century until now?

Who gave authority for this land to be invaded/occupied?


Here is what happened. As Jesus said, it can not be that a prophet be without Jerusalem. The false Prophet also. So 33 years before the end of the "times of the Gentiles" it was taken for him so he could begin his false prophesising and profiting.

Yeah, that the mount between two seas, oceans. The Pacific ocean and the Atlantic. They surround the earth.(Eurasia) All the people of the earth are blessed by Abraham's religions. Three of them from his three sons. Isaac, Ishmael and the sons of Keturah.

Sorry for being so sketchy about this but it's dangerous topic. How about talking about some less politically devisive stuff.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Here is what happened. As Jesus said, it can not be that a prophet be without Jerusalem. The false Prophet also. So 33 years before the end of the "times of the Gentiles" it was taken for him so he could begin his false prophesising and profiting.

Yeah, that the mount between two seas, oceans. The Pacific ocean and the Atlantic. They surround the earth.(Eurasia) All the people of the earth are blessed by Abraham's religions. Three of them from his three sons. Isaac, Ishmael and the sons of Keturah.

Sorry for being so sketchy about this but it's dangerous topic. How about talking about some less politically devisive stuff.

Don't be sorry, it is a sensitive topic. But it's one thing to be on good terms with all wherever possible, and also not to be afraid of being attacked for expressing the truth as one understands it to be. Who knows, a more correct understanding of this prophecy may be an essential prerequisite to receiving even more corrective input for fuller understanding.

So here is where my present understanding appears to differ according to your present understanding..

Refer to Rev.17:10. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.

Now this was written by John on the Island of Patmos sometime after the criciifiction of Jesus. So at that time the sixth king was in manifestation, the seventh was yet to come. Since these seven kings are synonymous with the seven heads of the beast of Rev. 13:3, and of the correlating seven heads of the four beasts of Daniel 7, we can work out the first five that had already manifested. 1st is Babylon, 2nd is Persia, The 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th heads of the Rev.13:3 beast are the same as the four heads of the Daniel 7:6 third beast.

So then, since the 6th head of the Rev 13:3 beast, which is the same as the 4th of four heads of the 3rd beast of Daniel 7, was in power at the time John wrote Revelation, and since Rome was in power in the middle east at the time, Rome can't be the final 7th King to come, which is synonymous with the 4th beast of Daniel 7. What's more, we can conclude that the Rome of that time was the 4th of the four headed beast of Daniel 7:6 and therefore there was the one more beast of Daniel 7 to come at the time of John's Revelation.

Now then this makes sense since after the fall of Rome to the northern European tribes invading from the north, the King of the North, aka terrible 4th beast of Daniel 7 and seventh Head of the Revelation beast with ten horns, the imperial European colonizers of planet Earth emerges. And lastly with the USA, the little horn of the 4th Daniel 7 beast and two horned beast of Rev. 13:11 emerges.

Now to Daniel 11:45, the King of the North Europe along with the USA have set up their proxy Zionist state in the land between Jerusalem and the sea and now the time draws near for the emerging of the Messiah and judgement of Daniel 12.
 

dan b

Member
Don't be sorry, it is a sensitive topic. But it's one thing to be on good terms with all wherever possible, and also not to be afraid of being attacked for expressing the truth as one understands it to be. Who knows, a more correct understanding of this prophecy may be an essential prerequisite to receiving even more corrective input for fuller understanding.

So here is where my present understanding appears to differ according to your present understanding..

Refer to Rev.17:10. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.

Now this was written by John on the Island of Patmos sometime after the criciifiction of Jesus. So at that time the sixth king was in manifestation, the seventh was yet to come. Since these seven kings are synonymous with the seven heads of the beast of Rev. 13:3, and of the correlating seven heads of the four beasts of Daniel 7, we can work out the first five that had already manifested. 1st is Babylon, 2nd is Persia, The 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th heads of the Rev.13:3 beast are the same as the four heads of the Daniel 7:6 third beast.

So then, since the 6th head of the Rev 13:3 beast, which is the same as the 4th of four heads of the 3rd beast of Daniel 7, was in power at the time John wrote Revelation, and since Rome was in power in the middle east at the time, Rome can't be the final 7th King to come, which is synonymous with the 4th beast of Daniel 7. What's more, we can conclude that the Rome of that time was the 4th of the four headed beast of Daniel 7:6 and therefore there was the one more beast of Daniel 7 to come at the time of John's Revelation.

Now then this makes sense since after the fall of Rome to the northern European tribes invading from the north, the King of the North, aka terrible 4th beast of Daniel 7 and seventh Head of the Revelation beast with ten horns, the imperial European colonizers of planet Earth emerges. And lastly with the USA, the little horn of the 4th Daniel 7 beast and two horned beast of Rev. 13:11 emerges.

Now to Daniel 11:45, the King of the North Europe along with the USA have set up their proxy Zionist state in the land between Jerusalem and the sea and now the time draws near for the emerging of the Messiah and judgement of Daniel 12.


Hi ben,
About your last paragraph and Daniel12;1

Daniel 12;1 begins the year 2000AD. At this point the 6000 years which corresponds to God's six day Genesis creation are over. Now, before the 7th millennium and the Christian's rest can begin, they must first have their "hour of temptation" just as the Old Testament Covenant had theirs. Each Covenant has a 40 year time of temptation before entering a geographical location on this earth and living in what is called a "rest." Josh.23;1 and Heb.4;4-11 Rev.20;4,6

This "hour of temptation" which is calculated as 40 years is what "Micheal is standing up" to protect us during.(1000 divided by 24=41.6yrs.) Jesus told us in Rev.3;10 that;

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptaion......."

You see. Jesus has sent us Michael to protect those who followed Jesus as nations during the years from 2000 to 2040AD. During this time Dan.12;1 says "there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation..."

So today we are living in this hour of temptation and somewhere oh somewhere is the arkangel Michael "stood up" by Jesus to protect us as he promised in Rev.3;10. He is referred to as an archangel, so of course we cannot see him. He is not Jesus i don't think? Jude 1;9

And whom did he promise to "keep" and protect during this terrible 40 years? He said it to "those who kept the word of his patience." Today the Christian "nations" are all together in Europe. Rev.21;24 says that those "nations" with follow Jesus shall walk in the light of it." They shall walk in the light of the Christian millennium as described thoughout the entire chaper of Rev.21 But first they need protection during this short tribulation.

How are they distinguished as being "Christian" nations apart from their usage of the Christian Bible in their law courts? They also have kept Jesus's patience and ceased to execute capital punishment following his example as with the adulterous woman that he let go. Christian nations are the only nations who don't use capital punishment. And this has only occured quite recently to prepare them for the comming millennium. It is another sign of the time of the end and beginning of the future for those who follow Christ.

How the tribes of Dan and Ephraim are not sealed is seen when the identies of the "regeneration" tribes are disclosed. The tribe of Dan who is Orthodox Russia and America the 13th, are not sealed in geographically. All of the other tribes are.

I need to spend time on your ideas about the seven heads and assorted beasts of Dan and Rev. Good to hear from you. I'm interested!


ChapterTwentyFour%20(13).jpg
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Thanks dan b, I read what was said, and will reflect further.

May I ask from whom/where does this material you are posting come?
 

dan b

Member
Thanks dan b, I read what was said, and will reflect further.

May I ask from whom/where does this material you are posting come?


My grandfather, when he was 92 years old dictated a series of talks about the meaning of the Bible onto casset tapes to me. In these 4 and 5 hour talks we would forget even to eat or drink it was so interesting. I had studied and ventured into all the world's major religions intimately and was 39 years old at the time. Just in time to turn 40 i was assigned a task of investigation that led to these maps and charts ect.
 
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