Is America a Police state?

[Twilight Hue]

Where do you live that that's a thing? I've never seen police carrying any of that outside of a riot or other serious contingency. I mean, i'm sure that police HAVE a rifle/shotgun and some other gear in their car, but i've never seen one use it.

New York. Granted they don't always wear the gear although bulletproof armor vests are notably commonplace now in many areas off the state. My posting was referring that in the (near?) future, at the rate where we are going in light of what happened on 9/11 and similar, the common cop will eventually no longer look like police officers, but rather just like this on a full time basis.

 

[Genuine Realist]

Lol. Do be serious.

American society is the most incredibly tolerant in history and getting more open all the time. I wish that people who talk about police states could experience the real thing for only a day.

 

[Revoltingest]

It might be fantastical, but it's very serious.

 

[Genuine Realist]

We are not heading in the direction of a police state, but in quite the opposite. The Internet has a great deal to do with that.

 

[dust1n]

American society is the most incredibly tolerant in history and getting more open all the time.

What a joke.

 

[KnightOwl]

If you want to hear about police abuses on a regular basis, just subscribe to the Free Talk Live podcast. They talk about it all the time. I actually haven't listened in quite some time, but I don't imagine they've stopped. Funny thing -- I went to the page to grab the proper link and the top story on their website was about just such a case.
Free Talk Live | Talk Radio You Control

Another guy that talks about filming and recording police and other public servants is Dave Ridley. He has a youtube channel you can subscribe to.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RidleyReport

Revoltingest, you sound like the type of guy who might know of these guys already or even know them personally.

I know a good cop who knows cops targeted because they didn't tow the line. One had bogus child molestation charges brought on him. I don't think the answer is private security like some, but I do think we need some reforms and the explicit right to record is not a bad one. It is so obvious when cops feel threatened because of people recording their misdeeds. In the Oakland case a year or two ago they went around smashing cameras IIRC but video still got out because they were in a crowded place. That was the one where the cop claimed he thought he was shooting with a taser.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Lol. Do be serious.

American society is the most incredibly tolerant in history and getting more open all the time. I wish that people who talk about police states could experience the real thing for only a day.

Really?

Coming from a nation that operated a system of apartheid only half a century or so ago?

And remains hypersegregated to this day?

We (Evil British scum) never felt it necessary of course...but then I guess we must be less tolerant in other ways compared to uber tolerant america...:areyoucra

 

[Revoltingest]

"Hypersegregated"?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Hypersegregation is a form of racial segregation that consists of the geographical grouping of racial groups. Most often, this occurs in cities where the residents of the inner city are African Americans and the suburbs surrounding this inner core are often white residents [1]

Hypersegregation

 

[Revoltingest]

Why the term "hypersegregation" to describe the level of segregation here?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Why the term "hypersegregation" to describe the level of segregation here?

Broadly speaking in large american cities that is the case isnt it?...particularly in the north.

I would like to believe it isnt.

 

[Revoltingest]

Broadly speaking in large american cities that is the case isnt it?...particularly in the north.
I would like to believe it isnt.

Not that I've seen. Certainly, there are some pockets where extreme segregation exists (eg, Detroit, DC), but it results largely
from people deciding to associate with their own or to follow cheap real estate, more than the exclusion of others. (Although,
Detroit was known for not liking white folk some decades ago.) Government policy might enable this in some ways, but law
doesn't require segregation. Moreover, it is very illegal for real estate agents to "steer" customers.
I note that in Great Britain, there is a great deal of segregation too, eg, Pakistani neighborhoods, poor areas, rich areas. It
just doesn't strike me as worthy of the epithet "hypersegregation". That sounds more like apartheid in the old South Africa.

 

[gnomon]

Lol. Do be serious.

American society is the most incredibly tolerant in history and getting more open all the time. I wish that people who talk about police states could experience the real thing for only a day.

There is some truth to this.

As people talk about the rising population of minorities in this nation, based on shady definitions of what constitutes ethnicity, we are seeing a decrease in ethnic tensions, violence, etc. It appears that it is only a matter of time before marriage equality is accepted by a majority of the population. Not to be morbid about it but I imagine that once the oldest two generations in this nation die off we'll see some change even further towards progress in race relations and acceptance of GLBT and intersex individuals into obtaining full rights in society.

However. Law enforcement in this nation has been trending towards a militarized local law enforcement for quite some time now. From small towns obtaining APC's for no true practical purpose to the increasing number of SWAT style raids in drug enforcement, gambling enforcement and even in licensing enforcement for some rather ridiculous laws. Tactics used in these raids, once reserved to deal with people in a hostage/kidnapping situation who are definitely known to be armed and most likely aware of what is going on are now used predominantly in cases involving small time crooks or innocent civilians in situations where the target of the raid has no idea what is happening. Knock and announce warrants, no knock warrants, late night or very early morning raids to catch the target when their asleep, etc. are all tactics that greatly increase the risk of accident or death among both the civilians and police.

Add to the current state of law enforcement the incredible difficulties to hold public officials legally accountable for criminal acts and the appearance of a police state is understandable among many in this nation.

The latest news stories involving law enforcement is that there is a war on cops due to a few high profiled cases of assault against officers in the media. It's not true. Assaults against officers are at their lowest in two decades. More specifically, there are more officers employed in this nation and fewer assaults.

What we don't have accurate records of are of those people who are the targets of thousands of raids every year.

 

[Revoltingest]

The latest news stories involving law enforcement is that there is a war on cops due to a few high profiled cases of assault against officers in the media. It's not true. Assaults against officers are at their lowest in two decades. More specifically, there are more officers employed in this nation and fewer assaults.

I noticed that too. The risk is that perception by cops that they're targeted will enhance the us-vs-them mentality, so that they'll
be less likely to hold each other accountable for malfeasance & misfeasance. It would also make them prone to over-reaction.

 

[TJ73]

Not that I've seen. Certainly, there are some pockets where extreme segregation exists (eg, Detroit, DC), but it results largely
from people deciding to associate with their own or to follow cheap real estate, more than the exclusion of others. (Although,
Detroit was known for not liking white folk some decades ago.) Government policy might enable this in some ways, but law
doesn't require segregation. Moreover, it is very illegal for real estate agents to "steer" customers.
I note that in Great Britain, there is a great deal of segregation too, eg, Pakistani neighborhoods, poor areas, rich areas. It
just doesn't strike me as worthy of the epithet "hypersegregation". That sounds more like apartheid in the old South Africa.

Illegal but done all the time. I have spoken with potential real estate brokers and landlords that thought, when speaking with me on the phone , I was perfect for the property, only to find some instant, not clearly definable reason I was not upon seeing I am not all white.
I had a customer that was a broker. I told her My aunt was looking for such n such. She told me about some places in some very undesirable areas of town. I told her where i would prefer her to look and she suggested my Aunt may not be comfortable there. I let her now, it's OK, she's white. She was embarrassed and so was I. I have many similar stories. So not government sanctioned, but socially encouraged. I lived in very few places that didn't have segregated communities. Although money will get you anywhere you want. but if too many of the "wrong people" move in, ther rest move out.

 

[Revoltingest]

Illegal but done all the time. I have spoken with potential real estate brokers and landlords that thought, when speaking with me on the phone , I was perfect for the property, only to find some instant, not clearly definable reason I was not upon seeing I am not all white.
I had a customer that was a broker. I told her My aunt was looking for such n such. She told me about some places in some very undesirable areas of town. I told her where i would prefer her to look and she suggested my Aunt may not be comfortable there. I let her now, it's OK, she's white. She was embarrassed and so was I. I have many similar stories. So not government sanctioned, but socially encouraged. I lived in very few places that didn't have segregated communities. Although money will get you anywhere you want. but if too many of the "wrong people" move in, ther rest move out.

I didn't say it doesn't happen. But Michigan, for example, hires testers to pretend to want to lease or buy properties. Offenders get caught & prosecuted.
We just have too many integrated neighborhoods to warrant the term "hypersegregation"....except for Canadians - we keep them north of the border.
The shame of the north. http://www.bizbag.com/Canada/Canada-Shame%20of%20the%20North.htm

 

[Revoltingest]

Eyewitness News obtains exclusive video of teen burglar Chad Holley's controversial arrest by Houston police | abc13.com

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Not that I've seen. Certainly, there are some pockets where extreme segregation exists (eg, Detroit, DC), but it results largely
from people deciding to associate with their own or to follow cheap real estate, more than the exclusion of others. (Although,
Detroit was known for not liking white folk some decades ago.) Government policy might enable this in some ways, but law
doesn't require segregation. Moreover, it is very illegal for real estate agents to "steer" customers.

Definately from what I know of the statistical populations of your major cities.
It results from income disparity..poor inner city african americans..richer suburban whites..which is exclusion in its purest form.

I note that in Great Britain, there is a great deal of segregation too, eg, Pakistani neighborhoods, poor areas, rich areas. It
just doesn't strike me as worthy of the epithet "hypersegregation". That sounds more like apartheid in the old South Africa.

The situation is different, there are minority communities in cities but be they white or non white there is no suburban/inner city divide.
There is no income disparity.
Certainy there is a class divide but that is not related to intolerance...the topic of discussion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Definately from what I know of the statistical populations of your major cities.
It results from income disparity..poor inner city african americans..richer suburban whites..which is exclusion in its purest form.

There are also poor & working poor white folk in cities, eg, Baltimore (where I once lived).
There are also well to do black folk in the suburban areas.

The situation is different, there are minority communities in cities but be they white or non white there is no suburban/inner city divide.
There is no income disparity.
Certainy there is a class divide but that is not related to intolerance...the topic of discussion.

It is so different? That's not the impression I get when I hear about societal ills on the BBC.
Perhaps Great Britain isn't as great as you think, & America isn't as bad. But if the term "hypersegregation"
as you'd apply it to the US, then it might very well apply to most countries. What term would you use regarding
apartheid....hyperhyperhypersegregation? Methinks you're engaging in hyperbole.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Methinks you're engaging in hyperbole.

You are entitled to your opinion...thats the most polite response I can think of.

As sadly I rather like you.

Still...I don't believe for one second you truly understand the situation with any objective clarity.

The fact that there is a wide income gap between whites and non whites in america...is undeniable.
It may not be startingly obvious to you...but then you are an american...I guess you are desensitized to these issues if not simply ignorant.