Is all of existence proof of God's existence?

[DustyFeet]

People have been killing each other there for thousands of years over BS.

... over their "home". Both sides, either side, neither side. It's about "home".

 

[DustyFeet]

The one true God

My opinion, sooner or later, each of us, in our own way, in our time, will have an opportunity to experience or to feel or to taste the ultimate unity and source of everything. Which is: that all of us are connected to each other, connected to everything, everything we can see and everything we can't. I believe it's our purpose, i believe it's why we are here. I don't have any facts to prove it besides the small events that seem insignificant, but still somehow feel relevant, to me, in my life.

Somehow, if G-d exists as the source and root of it all. G-d who could have anything, a world perfected, us perfected, and instead, we are not, and it is not... then the process, the patterns, the struggle, suffering, it has a purpose. Pain with a purpose. Not something to think about or discuss with someone while in the pain, while in the loss, while suffering. But if G-d exists then this, all of it, is important, or else we would vanish or be perfected already. G-d can have angels and demons and anything in between, slaves and ministers executing the will of G-d for blessings or temptations with perfection. Then why us? Why now? I think the OP was right in a previous thread, but i will restate it this way, for pleasure. Beyond above reasons, for pleasure.

If G-d exists, G-d enjoys us, and is not just watching us, but partcipating with us. wants us to overcome, and rise up, and fall, and rise up, and fall, like a toddler learning to walk. and like the joy of a parent, who never knows when those first steps will happen, and never knows what those first words will be... or if they will be... G-d must enjoy us, must enjoy this, in a special way, not like the angels and demons who are.... predictable. Not like science, which is predictable. Randomness, friction, and ultimately success. But not predictable success.

I feel like, the beginnings and the ends are known, but the middle part, how and the when, was somehow suspended.

because if we can find it, find holiness here in this, amid the temptations, the chaos and occlusion, that's special.... finding holiness in each other, and in nature, and in science, leading us back to the one fundamental truth. You are me, we are not alone. A material world defined by boarders, limits and restrictions, a material world of rules... a world where the rules exist and borders are defined and exploited in politics and technology for good and for bad. And the borders and rules are true, proven and visible. But the invisible intangible unpredictable is true as well. It exists, we dont know it, we cant ever prove it. We can feel it. And little by little, if we accustom ourselves to it. And if we can recognize and learn to appeciate the spiritual beauty in this chaos, in this randomness, in ourselves, in each other, in our planet, in our universe, then we can protect it, in ourselves, in each other, in our planet, in our universe.

And this is a way, not the way, but maybe a way, to cooperation, to peace, to G-d. And once we get there, we won't need to prove it. Because we will all feel it together. Maybe one day.

With much love and great respect,

-DF-

 

[blü 2]

For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality.

Perhaps not. But objective reality is out there, containing sentient, purposeful, feeling beings but possessing no sentience, purpose, emotion of itself.

Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not.

Ahm, or we appreciate reality as the world external to us, to be explored, described and explained as best we can, and as to the local part of it, the earth, bending that to our purposes (making it important that we examine our purposes more often than perhaps we do).

For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God.

I don't think I could say that about the believers I know personally. If I understand them correctly, and I may not, they generally regard the divine as internal to the self.

Other believers will no doubt give their own comment here.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality. There is no device we can use to measure our feelings about reality. Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not. For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God. Any other words we used to represent reality, whether it is sets of mathematics or waxing poetics, all fall short and are incomplete representations of something always beyond simple representations. Reality is always much bigger than any words we use to talk about it. God is the only word with the representational power to accurately reflect the meaning behind the most deeply profound experience some theists have when they experience reality. So for theist, God not only exists, because reality exists, but God is the only fully meaningful explanation for what we experience as reality.

What makes you convinced that this is against science, or the scientific method? The scientific method is based on what you can see, feel, taste, and touch. Anything you can do this with, you can test. So it seems to me that being able to readily access the world around us means we are in a rather constant presence of God's created world. Secular atheists want to pave over this idea, because they believe wrongly that this somehow interferes with their freedom. Uhhh no it doesn't. The world humans make does that. You know Black Mirror's "Nosedive" episode? Where basically everything is like Facebook and ppl can get barred from their workplace because they have a low social score? Yeah, they're trying that in China apparently. God on the other hand built a world that you can even debate whether it is in fact flat or not, or even whether it is real or not, with zero effect on the question of if God exists or not (that's right, you can believe the world God made isn't real and God would still be real).

This is what people call "moot point" time. As in, if something by its very definition is self evident, but irrelevant except to believers, why do you want so strongly to disprove it? If you don't believe in any kind of spiritual world, what you ultimately believe in is big state. Which is fine, go right ahead and give yourself political overlords. But why try to bring everyone else around you down? Unlike the tooth fairy, saying "God is the one that made all this" is pretty self-evident. If it was actually Ahura Mazda then in effect that guy is who you're calling God. You can be definitely sure that someone out there leaves tooth money, but also sure it is your parents because if they die suddenly, all such gifts stop. On the other hand, a blanket statement about something existing because of a Creator is so broad to include stuff that predated humans like dinosaurs and plants and the universe itself. You could possibly say "my mind made all of this" but the average person would decide you are crazy and narcissistic.

 

[Looncall]

What makes you convinced that this is against science, or the scientific method? The scientific method is based on what you can see, feel, taste, and touch. Anything you can do this with, you can test. So it seems to me that being able to readily access the world around us means we are in a rather constant presence of God's created world. Secular atheists want to pave over this idea, because they believe wrongly that this somehow interferes with their freedom. Uhhh no it doesn't. The world humans make does that. You know Black Mirror's "Nosedive" episode? Where basically everything is like Facebook and ppl can get barred from their workplace because they have a low social score? Yeah, they're trying that in China apparently. God on the other hand built a world that you can even debate whether it is in fact flat or not, or even whether it is real or not, with zero effect on the question of if God exists or not (that's right, you can believe the world God made isn't real and God would still be real).

This is what people call "moot point" time. As in, if something by its very definition is self evident, but irrelevant except to believers, why do you want so strongly to disprove it? If you don't believe in any kind of spiritual world, what you ultimately believe in is big state. Which is fine, go right ahead and give yourself political overlords. But why try to bring everyone else around you down? Unlike the tooth fairy, saying "God is the one that made all this" is pretty self-evident. If it was actually Ahura Mazda then in effect that guy is who you're calling God. You can be definitely sure that someone out there leaves tooth money, but also sure it is your parents because if they die suddenly, all such gifts stop. On the other hand, a blanket statement about something existing because of a Creator is so broad to include stuff that predated humans like dinosaurs and plants and the universe itself. You could possibly say "my mind made all of this" but the average person would decide you are crazy and narcissistic.

Lots if non-sequiturs here. How does lack of belief imply preference for "big state", whatever that means?

It is far from self evident that an intelligence produced nature. You have been conned by scoundrels.

 

[David T]

I am not sure I could add much, but maybe . . .

The nature of our physical existence is as it it is, and yes it reflects the attributes of God, but not our own justification for God. The question from the human perspective is, of course, which God do want to justify as existing based on the nature of our physical existence from the human perspective?

Science and the scientific method is how humanity understands Creation and the attributes of God in our physical existence, but it is not how nor the why we believe in God. The problem with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is they are grounded in ancient scripture, the culture of different religions, and ancient concepts of God, ie Genesis, not compatible with science, and the nature of our physical existence as it is.

You forgot thousands of years of religious forum debates as well. This was going on long before the digital age in the analog form. A single psychological framework of a multiplicity.

 

[shunyadragon]

You forgot thousands of years of religious forum debates as well. This was going on long before the digital age in the analog form. A single psychological framework of a multiplicity.

I have not forgotten it all, but the past ancient dialogues and debates were shrouded and anchored in ancient mythology engraved in ancient scripture like the Pentateuch, especially Genesis.

 

[Segev Moran]

For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality. There is no device we can use to measure our feelings about reality. Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not. For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God. Any other words we used to represent reality, whether it is sets of mathematics or waxing poetics, all fall short and are incomplete representations of something always beyond simple representations. Reality is always much bigger than any words we use to talk about it. God is the only word with the representational power to accurately reflect the meaning behind the most deeply profound experience some theists have when they experience reality. So for theist, God not only exists, because reality exists, but God is the only fully meaningful explanation for what we experience as reality.

I think you are mixing it up.
The fact God exists doesn't make it the only thing the defines reality. it makes it the only thing that caused reality.
As you wisely mentioned, reality is subjective. this understanding is only recently been proven (or getting there) by scientific methods that support the claim we literally make our own reality.

This ability of humans (and humans only) to change reality in an instant(!) is what is referred to as the ability to choose.
The ability to choose is not only choosing A or B, rather the ability to choose how your reality will be experienced.

This ability is the greatest "power" God gave humans. it is described in ALL religious scriptures (theists or not) and it is described in countless of philosophical articles of the greatest minds humans had.

If you will look closely, you will find that science as we advance in time becomes more and more spiritual in its terms. it today describes things (in different words) that were described hundreds of years ago.

In the end of it, God is everything.. what does that mean? it means that everything emerged from and by God regardless of the question why, how, when or where.

Something is making your reality move. call it as you will, it exists and this is what makes our entire reality "move".
This "force" or whatever to choose to call it is only a small part of what God means.
God is not a character. it is not a person or an intelligence as you would imagine. It is an essence of everything.
The design of the human body is so complex and so advanced that if you'll do the math, you'll discover it takes too many factors for evolution to explain how we got from a one cell creature to become what we refer to as human today.

How long did it take from the smallest functioning thinking brain to evolve? think about what you brain is, study a bit about the unimaginable complexity of one inch of your brain.
Your fingertip contains Trillions of parts all functioning in an amazing sync governed by a lumpy juicy soft tissue you have in your skull.
When you really study the complexity of being a human, you will realize that it cannot be all a process of mutations and natural selection, there was just not enough time!

 

[tas8831]

Is all of existence proof of God's existence?


No.

 

[David T]

I have not forgotten it all, but the past ancient dialogues and debates were shrouded and anchored in ancient mythology engraved in ancient scripture like the Pentateuch, especially Genesis.

modern mythology and modern scripture is far better. I love dr. Who.

 

[shunyadragon]

modern mythology and modern scripture is far better. I love dr. Who.

True, mythology is fiction past and present.

 

[David T]

True, mythology is fiction past and present.

No myth is a myth.

 

[shunyadragon]

No myth is a myth.

True, but it is also fiction, so what?!?!?!

 

[David T]

For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality. There is no device we can use to measure our feelings about reality. Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not. For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God. Any other words we used to represent reality, whether it is sets of mathematics or waxing poetics, all fall short and are incomplete representations of something always beyond simple representations. Reality is always much bigger than any words we use to talk about it. God is the only word with the representational power to accurately reflect the meaning behind the most deeply profound experience some theists have when they experience reality. So for theist, God not only exists, because reality exists, but God is the only fully meaningful explanation for what we experience as reality.

My experience with theism has generally bad philosophy and bad science and actually having very little to do with either yhe bible or the topic god. Usually just extremely superficial "i believe". Genereally
.

 

[David T]

True, but it is also fiction, so what?!?!?!

and so is the photo. Nature loves to hide, like a stick bug? Is a stick bug myth? You seem to believe myth means fiction, not scientific? . That developed in christianity in context to other traditions and my degree was considered a "science" at one time!!! Or the queen of sciences. After all science gave us the easter bunny based on empericial observations.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. Many people are told (doesnt need to be instruction) when they were young. When they grow older, they, like most children, take what they learn to make sense out of life. Some teens move on to something else. Others stick with what makes sense to them. Its natural part of human growth.

It does not make god exist. Your upbringing and views makup (is built up of) the existence of god. Without these things youd be like me, no god influence whatsoever. Facts arent bias.



I can see that following what you were told and identified as true for yourself. If you are someone like me, you look up and say... okay.... and god is, where?



God proves science; science doesnt prove god.

Without being predisposed to god (and one creator or god at that!), knowing how earth revolves around the sun and when dinasours roam the earth doesnt show god. They are very isolated events from any supernatural cause. Those causes or origins are from you; your truth; your mind.



How?

I know why. Science can prove itself true by science. How does science prove heaven?

Which heaven? Christian? Buddhist? Hindu? (Case in point) I understand the psychological concept of knowing their is a creator but knowing which??

Thats all you.



No. Things move unto itself. You say you study science? How does energy (keeping it is simple) move on its own? Does it?

I mean, from what I know, energy is the source, origin, and movement of all things. Nothing is static just we think it is (case in point). What you did was confirmation bias. Its an assumption of truth based on what you already know and grown up with. If someone moved energy, other science would have picked it up. Science isnt biased.



Hence why its not from god. It just is.



Basically. Everything is "living"... energy, atoms, I dont know, organisms (you get my point?) That doesnt mean its from god. Just because X doesnt mean Y, doesnt mean the correct problem is 2 plus Z. (Yes. I know it doesnt make sense. See where Im coming from?)



Yes. But that doesnt mean the answer of god as the placeholder of what science cant explain. There is a term for that. I cant think of the name.



Me? Im not a science person. Im an artist. I see beauty in a lot of things I wish I can draw, paint, and write about. I do understand these things are not depended on my mind to exist. Beauty, yes it does. One persons work of art is another persons trash. (One persons sun risng from god is another persons earth revolving around the sun) But that doesnt change how I/we feel.

Just because it comes from my mind doesnt make it less important than knowing it is part of a god somewhere. Depends on the person. Science isnt bias.

Confirmation bias, also known as Observational selection or The enumeration of favorable circumstances is the tendency for people to (consciously or unconsciously) seek out information that conforms to their pre-existing view points, and subsequently ignore information that goes against them, both positive and negative. Confirmation bias - RationalWiki

In other words, someone told you god exist and created everything. You grew up with that knowledge. Every coinsdence, moving of the earth, even how you breathe comes from god. Not because god does exist but because you already have preknowledge. Whatever contradicts that knowlege, you ignore naturaly. Those you take in (say the part of science you connect with) are those that you feel is true to your prior knowledge.

Its an interesting way humans think of things. If youre into science, psychology is a good field to understand the mind in relation to our religion. There is also neurotheology, but not an exact science. Probably because it challenges the validity of religious belief via science (challenges the bias) so its disregarded.

Edited

@Thief

I hope this didnt touch a nerve?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you unspiritualize it, it makes sense. It just describes life sacredness of life and gratitude of it. God is the sacredness of life. God means gratitude and love because that is how I feel when I am in tuned with myself, others, and my environment.

It's very clear cut.

Good example of this is in the movie Keeping the Faith

The truth is, I don't really learn that much about your faith by asking questions like that... because those aren't really questions about faith, those are questions about religion. And it's very important to understand the difference between religion and faith.

Because faith is not about having the right answers. Faith is a feeling. Faith is a hunch, really. It's a hunch that there is something bigger connecting it all... connecting us all together. And that feeling, that hunch, is God.


-

Not a deity or anything. Its just the, how do I say it, the feeling that everyone is together of the same goal and same purpose. Its an enlightened feeling. 'nother example was when they did the final blessing at mass, the priest said: I know you guys feel the presence of god now. Make sure when you go out the Church you keep that feeling. God isnt just in the Church.

And people smiled, did the sign of the cross, and walked out washed with the high of god.

Gatitude for life and love between people and self is god. Some people externalize it others internalize some make incarnations others meditate. We're all human.

Shrugs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not having a good day talking to myself

@Milton Platt #77 addressed to you

 

[Milton Platt]

Not having a good day talking to myself

@Milton Platt #77 addressed to you

Thanks for the heads up. I am not on the site every day, sometimes absent for a week or more.

So your definition of a god is a hunch and or a feeling? Most people tend to go with an actual being.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thanks for the heads up. I am not on the site every day, sometimes absent for a week or more.

So your definition of a god is a hunch and or a feeling? Most people tend to go with an actual being.

No biggies. Lot of times I forget there was a conversation.

If you undogmatize christian belief: god is love. god is just. god is righteous. God cares. I feel the love of god. I experience god. God is taking care of me (parental feeling)

Not an actual being, but a feeling externalized. Like a lot of eastern faiths, their/our beliefs are internalized. It works from the inside out. Christianity (dont know about others) works from the outside in.

Its all throughout history. Gods influence people. Gods are the sun, rain, and gods become people. Its not an actual being but an personification of feeling so that X interacts with them: God saved me. (Im saved by the love god gave me; holy spirit within me). God is my father. God is...

The bible puts culture and myth to explain the nature of god/this feeling of wholess/spirit for lack of better words. It makes it to where humans understand what and who god is. A part from that, they "cant trust their feelings". Its a tug a war between ones feelings/human and ones feelings/spirit of god.

Commonly named satan vs holy spirit.

You know. I havent had one christian challenge me that god is a deity/being. Its always based on ones experience, emotion, interpretation, cough, faith.

edit ha. take your time.