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Featured Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Micah 5:2 mentions the Messiah being born in Bethlehem. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Genesis 49:10 and 2 Samuel 7:8–16 mentions the Messiah being from Judah.
    The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him; and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.

    What does it mean that the scepter will not depart from Judah (Genesis 49:10)? | GotQuestions.org

     
  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    First of all, nothing in your post has anything to do with my question as to why you tried to prove your point by quoting from an Islamic source. Why are you dodging this?
    No, that's not what it says.
    No, that's not what it says. It says "until Shiloh comes". Jesus's name was not Shiloh.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Micah 5:2 is a messianic prophecy. Context makes the meaning of scripture clear. When you read the scriptures again you notice things that you didn't notice before. Is Micah 5:2 a Messianic prophecy? | GotQuestions.org

     
  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    How about you explain why you thought that an Islamic source would convince me.
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The person who wrote the article was a Christian and he was saying that the Messiah being born in Bethlehem was mentioned in Micah 5:2.
     
  6. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    And you couldn't just say that the first time I asked?
     
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  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what the church did, but that has nothing to do with God dying for his creation. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  8. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Actually you do know. The NT text you read was a product of the Church. They are your source of Jesus beleif. Besides, it is not like you can read the original words of any rabbi who wrote in Hebrew, Aramaic, Judeo-Arabic, of Yiddish so we know that is not your source.
     
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  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Rabbi Joseph ben Kaspi believed that the Suffering Servant was the Messiah but he changed his beliefs because of the mistakes of the church that existed at the time. People confuse the mistakes of the church with having a relationship with God. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  10. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Actually, he didn't. Quote to me what he wrote in Hebrew.
     
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  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Midrash mention that the Suffering Servant is the Messiah. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  12. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    We all know that you don't accept the various Midrash texts. If you did you would have to accept everything the Midrash says not only part of it. You also would be forced to accept the Midrash that openly disagree with your beleif in Jesus.

    Also, you don't have to include the link anywhere. I don't accept it as valid. Only "you" showing me that you can read the entire Midrash in the original languages they are in would get me to take your point even remotely serious. ;)
     
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  13. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    If we have free will how can what someone does be gods will? That defeats the purpose of free will.
     
  14. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    The book that these missionary sites always use to "prove" rabbinic traditions about Isaiah 53 is Neubauer and Driver's
    The Fifty-third chapter of Isaiah according to the Jewish interpreters. If you click on that link, you'll see that searching for Ibn Kaspi in the book bears evidence that Kaspi said the exact opposite of what these missionaries claim he said.
     
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  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Rabbi Joseph ben Kaspi changed his beliefs about the Suffering Servant being the Messiah because of the Christian persecution of Jewish people. He confused the sinful nature of human beings with God's love for HIs creation. Whatever the church did, it has nothing to do with Jesus teaching us to love one another and not judge. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  16. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Please show the evidence within one of his many books.
     
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  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The texts that he wrote shows that the Suffering Servant cannot be Israel. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  18. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Babylonian Talmud mentions that the Suffering Servant is the Messiah. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah – A Rabbinic Anthology | Jewish Awareness Ministries

     
  20. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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