Is according to Jews everything God's will?

[Skywalker]

Christianity is a theological system where Jesus is believed to be the Messiah who died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is coming again. Salvation is through faith/belief in him (protestants would say by faith alone). Is there a person in America who hasn't been told that the gospel is "For God so loved the world that he gave his only beloved son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."??? I could write a book on Christianity, but wanting to keep things to a simple paragraph, that's what I have to say. Throw in the Trinitarian doctrine for good measure. None of this was around during Jesus ministry. It was invented later by his disciples, and mostly Paul.

I believe in the Trinity, because the Son of God incarnated to die on the cross. If God isn't a trinity, can we be saved? The answer is no. | carm.org

If God isn’t a trinity, can we be saved?
by Matt Slick | Aug 25, 2009 | Questions, Salvation

If God were not a Trinity, we could not be saved. The reason is simple. Our sins are against infinite and holy God; and we are, therefore worthy of infinite punishment. Sins are related to the one offended. If I slap a friend, he might get upset. If I slap the President of the United States, the Secret Service would be all over me; and I’d be in jail. The exact same action gets two totally different results because of whom the action is against. Likewise, when we sin, we sin against the Holy King of the entire universe; and the penalty is eternal damnation.

There is no way that mere humans can satisfy the infinite judgment of a holy God because we are finite and sinners. We are not capable of doing enough good or being good enough to make things right. The only one left who is capable of performing a perfect act of atonement is God himself. Therefore, God the Son came down in the form of Jesus and bore the wrath of God the Father. But this could not be possible if God were not a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The second person of the Trinity became a man (John 1:1, 14; Phil. 2:5-8) and was subject to the Law (Gal. 4:4), bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), and took our punishment (Isaiah 53:4-6). Without God being a Trinity this could not be possible; and there could be no full and complete incarnation which would make the sacrifice of Jesus of infinite value, which in turn would satisfy the judgment of an infinite God.

Colossians 2;( doesn't mean that Jesus is God the Father and the Holy Spirit

.

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[Skywalker]

It is just not necessary. You have been given a twisted teaching about atonement. It began with the notion that only blood would atone, and ended with the idea that the Messiah would die for your sins.

Eternal separation from God is why God atoned for our sins on the cross. Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We will all be fully awake and aware, either happily in heaven, or in disgrace and everlasting contempt in hell. Mark Twain made a joke of it, suggesting we should "go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company." However, it will not be a joke for anyone if they end up in hell.

 

[Skywalker]

No, it doesn't

Rabbis used to wonder if there would be two Messiahs because He was spoken of as both a Suffering Servant, coming to remove the barrier of sin from between people and God, and as a Conquering King, coming to deliver His people from worldly oppression. But they were reading about two visits of the same Messiah. One down, and one to go! The rabbis used to wonder if there were going to be three Messiahs, because it is written that He would be born in Bethlehem, that God would call Him out of Egypt, and that He would be called a Nazarene. They couldn't imagine one man fulfilling all three requirements. But Jesus was born in Bethlehem, was taken by his parents into Egypt to escape being murdered by Herod, and lived there until God told Joseph it was OK to return to Israel. Then they went to live in Nazareth, where Jesus grew up and learned and worked until he was thirty. If it was difficult to imagine one man fulfilling only those three requirements of Messiah, imagine contemplating the odds for the 300 prophecies that have come true in Jesus. First, you would have to go down to the neutron, proton, electron level of an atom to get a sample size big enough. There just aren't enough other items in the universe to describe the unlikelihood of this happening. We know it is absolutely impossible for man to predict the future with 100 percent accuracy. Certainly not to this magnitude. Only God could do that, and He did.

 

[rosends]

Certain concepts, like Satan and the Trinity, are more clearly revealed in the New Testament, but they are still there in the Old Testament.

You see, that's the point -- you are deciding something about a text and that's just spiffy. The contention was that the idea of original sin was in Judaism, not that you, through your theology, can find a way to justify it and read it in to older texts. If you want to keep changing your point every time you are confronted with facts, so be it. The world sees what you do.

 

[rosends]

Truth and lies are mixed. I don't agree with the pseudepigrapha or apocrypha either but that doesn't mean that there is no truth in it that is based on the Old Testament.

Again, this avoids the whole point, The article was misrepresented and you bought in to it. It doesn't say what you thought it said. Just accept the correction and admit that it was not a bright move on your part to refer to it.

 

[Skywalker]

You see, that's the point -- you are deciding something about a text and that's just spiffy. The contention was that the idea of original sin was in Judaism, not that you, through your theology, can find a way to justify it and read it in to older texts. If you want to keep changing your point every time you are confronted with facts, so be it. The world sees what you do.

If the teaching is in the Old Testament, it's there regardless of if someone is trying to read it into older texts.

 

[Skywalker]

You see, that's the point -- you are deciding something about a text and that's just spiffy. The contention was that the idea of original sin was in Judaism, not that you, through your theology, can find a way to justify it and read it in to older texts. If you want to keep changing your point every time you are confronted with facts, so be it. The world sees what you do.

F. F. Bruce said, "No single form of messianic expectation was cherished by Jesus' contemporaries, but the hope of a military Messiah predominated. The promises of a prince of the house of David who would break the oppressor's yoke from his people's neck seemed to many to be designed for such a time as theirs, whether the yoke was imposed by a Herodian ruler or by a Roman governor". Some modern Christians criticize the Old Testament Israelites' misunderstanding of the type of Messiah the scriptures promised and the first-century Jew's initial blindness to Jesus. But today we read the Old Testament with the benefit of the New Testament's clarifying revelations, and we cannot assume we would have greater perception than they did before these revelations existed. This also applies to original sin in the Old Testament.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The rabbis used to wonder if there were going to be three Messiahs, because it is written that He would be born in Bethlehem, that God would call Him out of Egypt, and that He would be called a Nazarene.

So much in your post that I could demolish, but I will pick on just this one thing. No rabbis, past or present, are concerned with any prophecy about the Messiah being called a Nazarene, because there is no such prophecy. There is not even a general prophecy that the Messiah will come from Nazareth.

If you wish, you can try to provide the chapter and verse of your so-called prophecy in the Tanakh. Good luck. And don't bother with a link as you know I don't read your links.

Hint, the gospel says Nazarene, not Nazarite -- they are two very different words. Nazarene means someone who comes from Nazareth. Any verses about being a Nazarite will obviously not answer my challenge.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The amount of time it takes for someone to commit a crime doesn't determine the punishment. Why would God punish someone for eternity for temporary sins?

It is just weird when you reply something that has absolutely nothing to do with the post you are replying to.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Because God is an eternal being, when someone sins, they sin against an infinite God. God is infinite in his love but He is also infinite in his justice. If God wasn't just, it would be an insult to his holiness.

None of your argument proves that the price for sin is infinite.

 

[Skywalker]

None of your argument proves that the price for sin is infinite.

The Bible refers to hell as the "kingdom of darkness" and declares that "the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12). It says that people who reject God do so because they love the deeds of darkness rather than the light. Since darkness is what these people want, it is what they get for all of eternity. And there is no escape from this place because there is only an entrance-no exit. Some people choose not to believe in the God of the Bible because they don't like the thought of an angry God who would punish people eternally in hell. I used to think the same thing. Before I was a Christian, I didn't know that there were many attributes of God. Most people are familiar with the Bible verse "God is love." And He is. But He is also just. He is holy. He is righteous. And because of these other attributes, He also has a tough side-and rightfully so.

 

[Skywalker]

It is just weird when you reply something that has absolutely nothing to do with the post you are replying to.

I was explaining why God being eternal means that the price of sin is infinite.

 

[Skywalker]

So much in your post that I could demolish, but I will pick on just this one thing. No rabbis, past or present, are concerned with any prophecy about the Messiah being called a Nazarene, because there is no such prophecy. There is not even a general prophecy that the Messiah will come from Nazareth.

If you wish, you can try to provide the chapter and verse of your so-called prophecy in the Tanakh. Good luck. And don't bother with a link as you know I don't read your links.

Hint, the gospel says Nazarene, not Nazarite -- they are two very different words. Nazarene means someone who comes from Nazareth. Any verses about being a Nazarite will obviously not answer my challenge.

The Old Testament prophesies that, whoever this Messiah would be, He would be born in Bethlehem. At the time of Jesus' birth, Bethlehem had only about 1,000 inhabitants.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2).

Matthew 2:1 shows the fulfillment:

Now Jesus having been born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Bible refers to hell as the "kingdom of darkness" and declares that "the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12). It says that people who reject God do so because they love the deeds of darkness rather than the light. Since darkness is what these people want, it is what they get for all of eternity. And there is no escape from this place because there is only an entrance-no exit. Some people choose not to believe in the God of the Bible because they don't like the thought of an angry God who would punish people eternally in hell. I used to think the same thing. Before I was a Christian, I didn't know that there were many attributes of God. Most people are familiar with the Bible verse "God is love." And He is. But He is also just. He is holy. He is righteous. And because of these other attributes, He also has a tough side-and rightfully so.

The concept of an eternal hell exists only in the Christian scriptures.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I was explaining why God being eternal means that the price of sin is infinite.

But it doesn't. It is an unwarranted conclusion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Old Testament prophesies that, whoever this Messiah would be, He would be born in Bethlehem. At the time of Jesus' birth, Bethlehem had only about 1,000 inhabitants.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2).

Matthew 2:1 shows the fulfillment:

Now Jesus having been born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,

Where is your counter argument about there being no prophecy for the messiah being called a Nazarene?

 

[Skywalker]

The concept of an eternal hell exists only in the Christian scriptures.

Sheol doesn't refer to the grave. Gibrah is the term that refers to the grave in the Old Testament. A Biblical Examination of Hell -By Dr. Max D. Younce, Th.D

1. Hell in The Old Testament
   
   The word "Hell" appears in the Old Testament approximately 31 times and, without exception, is translated from the Hebrew word "Sheol." This same Hebrew word is also translated "pit" three different times. "Pit," translated from Sheol, is found in Numbers 16:30,33 and Job 17:16. Hell is referred to as a pit three times, both being the same place.
   
   Sheol is not the grave. A mistranslation--"Sheol" is also translated as grave approximately 25 times in the Old Testament, which has caused much confusion concerning the Doctrine of Hell. Jehovah's Witnesses utilize this translational error to the fullest, claiming Hell is the grave and nothing more. When we look at the Hebrew we find that the word "gibrah" is properly used for "grave." "Gibrah" is translated throughout the Old testament as "grave, burying place, and sepulchre," and properly so. Sheol is never in any case in the Old testament ever referring to grave, burying place or sepulchre; but, rather a place located in the center of the earth. The grave, burying place and sepulchre houses our dead bodies, but Sheol is the compartment that contains the souls and spirits that will never die and which were in those earthly bodies.

Here are a few of the places where the Hebrew word "Sheol" is mistranslated as grave in the Old testament. Beside the passages in parenthesis is the way it appears in the Revised Standard. The Revised Standard has transliterated, i.e., put the Hebrew word "Sheol" itself in the English translation. There is one exception where Sheol is translated as "Pit" by the Revised Standard and that is Job 33:22. This would be correct, since Sheol is a pit located in the center of the earth.

 

[Skywalker]

But it doesn't. It is an unwarranted conclusion.

God hates sin. Period. None of us on earth can fully realize just how much God hates even the smallest sin. I had not pictured a God who had this stern side. One day, however, I realized that I couldn't just create the God that I wanted. God is not an exercise in imagination, or visualization, or mind projection. He exists independent of my thoughts about Him. But that's what I was trying to do as I ignored what the Bible had to say about God. The Bible tells us why we incur God's wrath.

Mortify therefore your members - Since you are dead to sin and the world, and are to appear with Christ in the glories of his kingdom, subdue every carnal and evil propensity of your nature .For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: (Colossians 3:5-6)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (Romans 1:18)

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath (Romans 2:5-8).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Sheol doesn't refer to the grave. Gibrah is the term that refers to the grave in the Old Testament. A Biblical Examination of Hell -By Dr. Max D. Younce, Th.D

Gehenna is a temporary hell. Temporary, where we are purified.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God hates sin. Period. None of us on earth can fully realize just how much God hates even the smallest sin. I had not pictured a God who had this stern side. One day, however, I realized that I couldn't just create the God that I wanted. God is not an exercise in imagination, or visualization, or mind projection. He exists independent of my thoughts about Him. But that's what I was trying to do as I ignored what the Bible had to say about God. The Bible tells us why we incur God's wrath.

Mortify therefore your members - Since you are dead to sin and the world, and are to appear with Christ in the glories of his kingdom, subdue every carnal and evil propensity of your nature .For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: (Colossians 3:5-6)
Does God hate sin? Most assuredly.

But this doesn't mean the penalty for sin is infinite. You have yet to prove this from the Tanakh. All your evidence above is from the New Testament, which as you know has no authority for me.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (Romans 1:18)

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath (Romans 2:5-8).

Does God hate sin? Most assuredly.

But this doesn't mean that the price of sin is infinite. All your evidence above is taken from the New Testament, which as you know carries no authority for me.