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Featured Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Progressive revelation is a consistent theme in the Bible. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    You said that Christianity had not been invented yet. Christianity is about having a relationship with God. It's not about the church doctrines. I know Christians who don't go to church and unbelievers who go to church sometimes.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    For the Messiah to have died for our sins, there would have to be a sinless substitute. None of us could pay the price of sin because we are sinners. God is infinite, and he can pay the infinite price of sin in a finite amount of time.
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think there is an end of times? I believe that there is, because everything has a beginning and an end, and a sinful world wasn't meant to go on forever. It isn't how things were meant to be. God didn't create sinners. In the same way that there is that order to things, the concept of the Messiah has to do with God is righteous and just and holy and he must punish sin. Just like a judge who lets a criminal go would not be just, God cannot let sin go unpunished. But God didn't want us to have to make the payment. So he reached out to us in his love.
     
  5. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It is convenient for me to roughly think of things in terms of "Now, Messianic Age, Resurrection and World to Come" since that is what the prophets teach.

    I don't think of God as someone who punishes for the sake of making things even steven. That's complicated and takes into consideration whether we actually did things of our own free will without interference from our biology or our environment, etc., and I'm not sure anyone would end up punished. I do think of God as a Father who loves us, and who is willing to discipline us in order to teach us. The Jewish idea of Gehenna as a temporary hell where we are rehabilitated for the world to come fits in very nicely with that.
     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God doing all things decently and in order and not being the author of confusion is why the Messiah is a Savior. Just like there are laws in the human world that have penalties when people break them, the same concept exists with God's laws. Jesus took our place so we wouldn't have to pay the price for our sins. Nobody can stand in the presence of God without the Messiah covering their sins. God is perfect, and we are sinful.
     
  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It is just not necessary. You have been given a twisted teaching about atonement. It began with the notion that only blood would atone, and ended with the idea that the Messiah would die for your sins.
     
  8. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Christianity is a theological system where Jesus is believed to be the Messiah who died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is coming again. Salvation is through faith/belief in him (protestants would say by faith alone). Is there a person in America who hasn't been told that the gospel is "For God so loved the world that he gave his only beloved son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."??? I could write a book on Christianity, but wanting to keep things to a simple paragraph, that's what I have to say. Throw in the Trinitarian doctrine for good measure. None of this was around during Jesus ministry. It was invented later by his disciples, and mostly Paul.
     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What does it have to do with Jesus, then? It's like saying that monks and nuns and the rosary are essential to following Jesus. It's a non issue. There are non Christian belief systems who have those concepts and Christians who dont. .
     
  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    What does it have to do with Christianity? Jesus apostles, especially Paul, and the Church which followed, DEFINED Christianity. Not Jesus. Jesus was just a nice Jewish man who tried to be the Messiah and failed. He is probably turning over in his grave that people worship him.
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Whether one believes in the Trinity, the many traditions of Christianity have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus, the apostles, or Paul.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Trinity doesn't have to be mentioned in the Old Testament for it to be true. The New Testament uses the term Godhead in Colossians 2:9, not the Trinity.

    The Trinity is supported by there being progressive revelation in the Old Testament. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

    The term yachid is never applied to God in the Old Testament. The Trinity: The Old Testament Evidence: A Multi-Personal God

     
  14. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It is not my intention to disrespect you or your beliefs. I realize that to you the New Testament is the very word of God.

    But to me the New Testament is at the very best an intellectual curiosity and at worst false teachings. Personally I don't think Trinitarianism is in the New Testament either, but I don't argue that point with a Christian because, honestly, I just don't have a dog in the race. Certainly, however, it is not in the Tanakh, and the Tanakh teaches against it. God is one and his name is one. Not three in one.

    Just a reminder -- I never read your links. Not sure why you continue to paste them.

    Be well.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How could a sinner pay the infinite price of sin? Without Jesus suffering on the cross for our sins, his death on the cross wouldn't have the meaning that it has.
     
  16. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Who says the price of sin is infiinite?
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Because God is an eternal being, when someone sins, they sin against an infinite God. God is infinite in his love but He is also infinite in his justice. If God wasn't just, it would be an insult to his holiness.
     
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    That doesn't mean the price of a sin is infinite. It just oesn't follow.
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    There are several difficult sayings attributed to Jesus that the New Testament writers would not have included if they were making up a story about Jesus being God. Following the teachings of Jesus is not a teaching of convenience. For example, according to the New Testament, Jesus:

    declares, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)
    seems to predict incorrectly that he's coming back to earth within a generation (Matthew 24:34)
    then says about his second coming, that no one knows the time, "not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son" (Matthew 24:36)
    seems to deny his deity by asking the rich young ruler, "Why do you call me good? No one is good-except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
    is seen cursing a fig tree for not having figs when it wasn't even the season for figs (Matthew 12:18)
    seems unable to do miracles in his hometown, except to heal a few sick people (Mark 6:5)

    If the New Testament writers wanted to prove to everyone that Jesus was God, then why did they leave in these difficult sayings that seem to argue against his deity?
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The amount of time it takes for someone to commit a crime doesn't determine the punishment. Why would God punish someone for eternity for temporary sins?

     
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