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Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
There is no "ye are gods" in the bible (you are refering to a line in Psalms 82).

Here are 2 other translations:

I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."

I had taken you for divine beings, sons of the Most High, all of you;

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mybe if you start with a different translation, you will have a different set of beliefs.

The same principle applies as with the term Savior because God wasn't literally saying that the people were angels.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Being pierced for our transgressions shows that the Messiah is literally a Savior.
No, it doesn't. First, the text doesn't say that a messiah does anything for transgressions. Second, the text doesn't say the messiah is pierced. I could probably think of a third if I tried. How about this -- being pierced doesn't turn someone into a Savior. You are making up rules as you go along.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No, it doesn't. First, the text doesn't say that a messiah does anything for transgressions. Second, the text doesn't say the messiah is pierced. I could probably think of a third if I tried. How about this -- being pierced doesn't turn someone into a Savior. You are making up rules as you go along.

The animal sacrifices in the Old Testament were types and shadows of the Messiah.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
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Jesus appeared to Abraham in the Old Testament. Appearances Of Jesus Christ In The Old Testament

The Personal Appearances of Christ in the Old Testament

  1. Genesis 21:17,18
    (called angel of God - cared for Hagar)

  2. Genesis 22:11-18
    (called angel of the Lord - blessed Abraham)

  3. Genesis 28:13-16
    (called Lord - blessed Jacob)

  4. Genesis 31:11-13
    (called angel of God - instructs Jacob)

  5. Exodus 3:1,2 (John 8:58 and Acts 7:30-33)
    (called angel of the Lord - instructs Moses)

  6. Exodus 13:21 (Exodus 23:20-23)
    (called Lord - leads and protects Israel)

  7. Exodus 14:19
    (called angel of God - leads and protects Israel)

  8. 2nd Kings 1:3,15
    (called angel of the Lord - protected Elijah)

  9. 2nd Kings 19:35 (2nd Chronicles 32:21; Isaiah 37:36)
    (called angel of the Lord - Zechariah 1:11,12; 3:1,5,6; 12:8)

  10. Daniel 6:22 (Numbers 20:16 and Isaiah 63:9 and Daniel 3:28)
    (called angel - protected Daniel)
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
That same exact verse is in the English Old Testament. Just like not all Muslims know Arabic, not all Jewish people know Hebrew.

I know Hebrew, do you? Also, there a number of Torath Mosheh Jews and Orthodox Jews on RF who do know Hebrew. Maybe we should all get together and do a Zoom where you can show that you can read a Hebrew Tanakh.

Would you be willing to do that?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I know Hebrew, do you? Also, there a number of Torath Mosheh Jews and Orthodox Jews on RF who do know Hebrew. Maybe we should all get together and do a Zoom where you can show that you can read a Hebrew Tanakh.

Would you be willing to do that?

Are you saying that this verse is different in the Tanakh and the Hebrew Bible? Isaiah 53:3

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
The animal sacrifices in the Old Testament were types and shadows of the Messiah.
Let's see...

An animal must be without blemish or injury - Jesus was pierced and beaten.
The sacrifice must be upon the altar - Jesus died on a cross somewhere far away from the Temple Mount.
The sacrifice must be made by priests descendants of Aharon - Jesus was killed by Roman soldiers.

So no, not types or shadows of Jesus...
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Let's see...

An animal must be without blemish or injury - Jesus was pierced and beaten.
The sacrifice must be upon the altar - Jesus died on a cross somewhere far away from the Temple Mount.
The sacrifice must be made by priests descendants of Aharon - Jesus was killed by Roman soldiers.

So no, not types or shadows of Jesus...

Jesus was put to death by Jewish priests.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that this verse is different in the Tanakh and the Hebrew Bible? Isaiah 53:3

I am saying that the your "translation," your choice to ignore Yeshayahu chapters 1 to 66, and your "interpretation" are not supported by the Hebrew Tanakh. If you really were certain you would be willing to do a Zoom where w/o translation you prove your claims using only the Hebrew text.

If you are serious about what you are claiming you should have no problem with such an offer.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I am saying that the your "translation," your choice to ignore Yeshayahu chapters 1 to 66, and your "interpretation" are not supported by the Hebrew Tanakh. If you really were certain you would be willing to do a Zoom where w/o translation you prove your claims using only the Hebrew text.

If you are serious about what you are claiming you should have no problem with such an offer.

The Hebrew text of that verse has the same meaning.

Isaiah 53:3 Hebrew Text Analysis
 
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