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Is according to Jews everything God's will?

rosends

Well-Known Member

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No, I don't see there being an election. The messiah will be a king of the Jewish nation.

By president I meant not a king of the world but a king of the Jewish nation who will be a world figure similar to a United States president.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
There's a difference between bringing world peace and ruling the world (even if it is in a peaceful manner).

Why do you think the will of God is for the Messiah to bring world peace without ruling the world? I believe that the Messiah will bring a thousand years of peace and to do that he will rule the world.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The early Christians followed the principles and tenets of the Old Covenant. Why do you think them believing in Yeshua was not God's will?
I can only guess that the rituals for worship at the temple in Jerusalem were taking place until the temple was virtually destroyed by the Roman armies in 70 C.E. Perhaps someone knowledgeable in Jewish history here can answer that question. And, of course, when they were exiled from their promised land in the past, they had to perform the rituals another way.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I am sad to say too many did not. You see any Sadducees lately? Or Karaites? They were once gantser k’nackers. But they abandoned HaShem, now they’re gone. Many Jews converted to other faiths. Their descendants have been lost as identified Jews. The Northern Kingdom followed other gods. They are lost and won’t be restored until Shiloh comes.

It isn’t a question of numbers. It is a question of following HaShem. Don’t do that and you’re lost. Do it and you can never be lost. Shalom.
Yes, but what about God's will, as some of the questions here are about. If God wills that some don't follow Him, that to me seems a bit incongruous. He wills that some will disobey, then He punishes them, and then what? So the question is, do you believe God wills disobedience to His commands and instructions, do I understand your position correctly?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
in a basic sense, nothing can not be according to God's plan and foreknowledge. Attributing the human notion of "will" on to God will lead to misunderstandings.
I am rather sure that God, in His perfect wisdom, knew what would happen if someone did not obey Him. It seems certain to me that He did not know Adam would disobey Him. But if Adam did disobey Him, God, in His righteous and perfect wisdom, would know what to do about it.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
OK, thank you. With that in mind, may I ask what about the nation? Not sure how you identify the nation, but hopefully you understand the question. Would they (it -- the nation) be redeemed before or after you speak of the installation.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
OK, thank you. With that in mind, may I ask what about the nation? Not sure how you identify the nation, but hopefully you understand the question. Would they (it -- the nation) be redeemed before or after you speak of the installation.
the particular chronolgy of the messianic era in Jewish thought is subject to discussion and interpretation. Here is one presentation which also discusses the idea of redemption.
The real signs of the Jewish Messiah/Mashiach | Ask the rabbi | Q&A | yeshiva.co

this discussion is of the nature of the messiah as a leader
Moshiach as a teacher/rabbi and/or national leader? | Ask the rabbi | Q&A | yeshiva.co

and this site has one understanding of the overall timeline
What Will Happen When Moshiach Comes?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
the particular chronolgy of the messianic era in Jewish thought is subject to discussion and interpretation. Here is one presentation which also discusses the idea of redemption.
The real signs of the Jewish Messiah/Mashiach | Ask the rabbi | Q&A | yeshiva.co

this discussion is of the nature of the messiah as a leader
Moshiach as a teacher/rabbi and/or national leader? | Ask the rabbi | Q&A | yeshiva.co

and this site has one understanding of the overall timeline
What Will Happen When Moshiach Comes?
Well now, here's a thought. Would all these differing interpretations mean that the various factors (or groups) in Judaism come to an agreement as to who fills the role of Messiah, or...anointed one, and would that be before or after he appears? There is of course Rabbi Schneerson. Again, just wondering. Thanks for your answers. By the way, kings often take power. They are not always given it by consent. Remember when the people wanted a king to be like the other nations and so God made Saul the king? I'll have to read more in the Tanach about that. Saul had if I remember correctly a little problem listening to or obeying his God. And God didn't like that. Was it God's will that Saul didn't listen?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Well now, here's a thought. Would all these differing interpretations mean that the various factors (or groups) in Judaism come to an agreement as to who fills the role of Messiah, or...anointed one, and would that be before or after he appears? There is of course Rabbi Schneerson. Again, just wondering. Thanks for your answers. By the way, kings often take power. They are not always given it by consent. Remember when the people wanted a king to be like the other nations and so God made Saul the king? I'll have to read more in the Tanach about that. Saul had if I remember correctly a little problem listening to or obeying his God. And God didn't like that. Was it God's will that Saul didn't listen?
The different interpretations indicate that a lot of this is informed guesswork and opinion. When the messiah comes, all will acknowledge he is the messiah. If people don't then he isn't.
Who Is Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah)?

Will Moshiach know that he is Moshiach?

When Moshiach comes how will people know about God?

Who is the Messiah?

Saul was a king -- the people wanted one and he was chosen. In the battle against Amalek he second guessed God and was punished for it by losing his kingship to David, also chosen by God.

As to whether something was "God's will" -- that's the same problematic phrase. Everything is according to what God knows and intends. It can't be otherwise.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The different interpretations indicate that a lot of this is informed guesswork and opinion. When the messiah comes, all will acknowledge he is the messiah. If people don't then he isn't.
Who Is Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah)?

Will Moshiach know that he is Moshiach?

When Moshiach comes how will people know about God?

Who is the Messiah?

Saul was a king -- the people wanted one and he was chosen. In the battle against Amalek he second guessed God and was punished for it by losing his kingship to David, also chosen by God.

As to whether something was "God's will" -- that's the same problematic phrase. Everything is according to what God knows and intends. It can't be otherwise.
Ok so from your answer, I guess I can safely say Rabbi Schneerson was not the Messiah, would you agree?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The different interpretations indicate that a lot of this is informed guesswork and opinion. When the messiah comes, all will acknowledge he is the messiah. If people don't then he isn't.
Who Is Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah)?

Will Moshiach know that he is Moshiach?

When Moshiach comes how will people know about God?

Who is the Messiah?

Saul was a king -- the people wanted one and he was chosen. In the battle against Amalek he second guessed God and was punished for it by losing his kingship to David, also chosen by God.

As to whether something was "God's will" -- that's the same problematic phrase. Everything is according to what God knows and intends. It can't be otherwise.
Is it possible God chooses not to know some things? Since He is God and the Creator, He could make it so that He does not know every detail, every choice, in advance. But He can know what the future will bring. Also judgment. He also could have made it so He knows in advance what the outcome will be, but
 
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