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Is Abortion Murder?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by RedDragon94, May 22, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    23.3%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    76.7%
  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    I don't think abortion is murder. Murder would imply malice, but that doesn't appear to be the case with abortion.

    On the other hand, I don't see it as a purely medical procedure either. It's not like having a cyst removed or a tumor.

    One way of looking at it might be that, since the fetus is a part of the woman, then a woman who has an abortion might be killing a part of herself. That would make it more akin to suicide than murder. I wouldn't consider it a good thing, but banning it or outlawing it wouldn't really help much.

    The main reason we punish murderers is because they're dangerous maniacs who kill people and should be locked up. But does a woman who had an abortion pose a similar danger to society? Probably not.
     
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  2. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Murder is a legal definition. Legal definitions aren't feelings. People may either agree or disagree with them, and will use emotive language to describe them.
     
  3. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Trees are living. Is it inhumane to chop one down? Why or why not?
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    In man's law? Who cares what humans think...? I care only about what God thinks. I believe we will all ultimately answer to him regardless of whether we acknowledge him or not.

    Interestingly, I have heard many arguments about what a woman can do with her own body. But you know that a fetus is NOT part of a woman's body at all. It is a separate and distinct individual who was created by her and set up house in her womb through a process that she initiated if the sex was consensual. It takes nourishment from its host because mothers were supposed to care about this miraculous life that entered her womb through no real effort on its part.

    This growing embryo can have a completely different blood group and distinctly different features to its mother. But it is her offspring whose life is ended for sometime very trivial reasons.

    When a woman has an abortion, she is not ending a pregnancy.....she is ending a life.
     
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  5. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    Of course it is. Don’t be absurd. It doesn’t help your position to say thing that are so obviously not true.
     
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  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Ask any medical professional if a fetus is part of a woman's body? It is hosted by her body but not part of it. It is a completely separate human being.
     
  7. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    What a weirdly American false dichotomy; "everything is either illegal or a constitutional right!"
     
  8. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    I think you are using some definition of the word “separate” of which I am unaware of.
     
  9. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Depending on ones definition of "human being", of course. I'm a medical professional and I wouldn't agree that a foetus is a human being.
     
  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I don't suppose that there are medical professionals who can perform abortions who could think otherwise.

    There are other medical professionals who would not perform abortions on demand. They would have to have a valid medical reason to do so.

    But the fetus is not part of a woman's body.....it is hosted by the woman's body.
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Separate as in two separate human beings...one hosted by the other.

    ETA: This foreign entity that is produced in a woman's body is so separate, that if her body identified it as a foreign object, it would be attacked by her own immune system. There are a group of cells that protect the embryo from being rejected by the mother.
     
    #71 Deeje, May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  12. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    But of course they are not separate at all.

    I hosted a book club once. I served various kinds of cheese.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Please read my edit.
     
  14. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    For a given definition of "being". "Organism" is a more accurate term that might help your meaning here.
     
  15. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    My pleasure.


    Well said, but of course it makes my point for me. It it were already separate it would not need to be rejected. This rejection process is the body’s attempt to separate it. But unless and until it is rejected, it is not separate.
     
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  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Its still a living entity. Calling it an 'organism' doesn't change anything. It is a human embryo that grows into a fetus and then eventually grows to become a viable human being, fed all that time by its mother, involuntarily. We were all embryos and fetuses at some point. Aren't we glad our mothers did not abort us? I value life...an unborn baby has a right to life. Who has the right to deny it a chance to live? I don't believe that any human has that right....but that is just me.

    If you don't want it, give it to someone who does.....what a gift!
    . :hugehug:
     
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  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Say what? o_O
    Because it is a separate entity, if it wasn't for the protection of the trophoblast cells, it would be attacked by her immune system as a foreign body. The cells stop it from being identified as a foreign invader.

    Huh? :p The body's attempt to get rid of the foreign entity is proof that it is not part of her body, otherwise it would not be rejected.....Capiche?
     
  18. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    If people could give away unwanted pregnancies to people who did want them, abortion wouldn't be a thing.
     
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  19. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    I will say what I said before. You are using a definition of “separate” that is strange to me. Even a tumour is not separate from the body until the surgeon cuts it out.

    I understand that a fetus has distinct properties. But it is still obviously physically part of someone else’s body. A foreign entity your own words, but an entity that is implanted in someone else. Inside, attached, connected, not separate. This is undeniable.

    You have a good night.
     
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  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Simple enough! Well put!
     
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