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Is Abortion Murder?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by RedDragon94, May 22, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    23.3%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    76.7%
  1. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Agnostic Bible Reader

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    If it is murder, we have an obligation to stop it. (It's against the law)

    If it's not then we have an obligation to affirm it. (It's a constitutional right)

    So, I will ask again, is it murder? And why or why not?
     
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Depends on the situation, it's nuanced.
     
  3. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Agnostic Bible Reader

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    Is the current banning lawful?
     
  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Which one? GA? AL? Whatevs??
     
  5. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    They are unconstitutional. Read Amendment VIII
     
  6. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    The problem is that "murder" is itself a legal definition. It is a fact that it is possible to kill another human being and not commit murder, and courts and juries decide that based on nothing but legal definitions.

    Law in the United States, and in most of the civilized world, says that abortion is not murder, and therefore, it is not. Change the laws, and it might well become murder, and then you might find immense public pressure to change the law again. After all, it's in that context (public pressure through demonstrations and so forth, along with many, many legal proceedings) that eventually culminated in Roe v. Wade.

    Yes, this could change again. That's the nature of human institutions. What I am trying to say is "abortion is murder" only if we humans say it is, and it isn't, only if we humans say it isn't. God is silent on the issue.
     
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  7. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Begging the question.

    It is not murder. "Murder" is an artificial classification given to a type of killing by the culture and system of law that exists. The definition is not set in stone. Right now, it is not 'murder' to kill a fetus. Unless, of course, that fetus is killed by someone who kills the mother, in which case s/he is quite likely to be charged with two murders; that of the mother AND the fetus, with sentences reflecting two murders.

    The question should be: should abortion, in some cases, BE classified as murder?

    I, for one, say yes. It should be. Not in every case, but when an abortion is sought by someone who entered into consensual sex with the full knowledge that pregnancy could result, and when the motive for the abortion is...."I'm too busy right now" or "oops" or "I changed my mind" or "but I didn't MEAN it!" Especially if there were birth control options that were not used, and other options are available.

    If the motive is....I want to kill this human so it won't interfere with my fun....yeah.
     
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    It's a matter of feelings. If you feel it's murder then you'll see it as murder. If you don't feel it is murder then you won't.

    Feelings aren't logical/rational. They are influenced by many things, some outside our conscious awareness. therefore often hard to express exactly why we feel a certain way.

    For me, in most cases, not all cases, I see it as murder. That's the way I feel. Why do I feel that way? Don't ask me, ask my unconscious mind. However, I wouldn't expect it to answer.
     
  9. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    No. Because murder requires the premeditated killing of one human being by another. For one, abortion is legal under the law up until a certain point in fetal gestation. Two, a zygote does not have the same capability and viability as a human being (a zygote is a diploid cell resulting from the fusion of two haploid gametes; a fertilized ovum). Similarly, a fetus regardless in its developmental stages save it having sentience, does not have the same capabilities as a developed human baby. A fetus essentially exhibits parasitic qualities until complete development, until then it does not have the same legal protections as developed human babies except at a certain gestation period recognized by the law. Other than that a zygote is not a human nor is (in my opinion) a fetus.
     
    #9 Epic Beard Man, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  10. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Murder is the unlawful killing through criminal act or omission of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought.

    If we use this criteria then abortion in and of itself is not murder, it becomes murder if the mother conferred personhood upon her fetus and was forcibly induced to abort against her will.
     
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  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It depends on your worldview and whether that worldview is shared by legislators.

    From the Christian perspective, I believe that the termination of a viable life is murder. If a child is conceived, then it has a right to live. If all that it will become is already programmed in its DNA, then what is taken is not just a bunch of cells.

    Women usually find out they they are pregnant after missing a period.

    This is what a fetus looks like at just 6 weeks after conception.....

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It has all that is necessary to identify it as human....a head, arms and legs with finger and toe buds developing. It has ears and eyes forming, a developing brain and a heartbeat. This would be the stage where most abortiosn would be contemplated.

    Whatever potential for its future is in its DNA, that would be taken away from a tiny human whom someone deemed unworthy of life....its own mother.

    However you want to justify it.....I believe it is wrong. Life is a gift and if we do not want the child, then there are other options. They made it....its the natural consequence of having sex.....which was meant to produce babies.....loved and wanted ones within a stable family. If you don't want babies, then we all know what to do....don't we? This is the 21st century after all....why are we still murdering unborn human beings by the millions every year?
     
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  12. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Actually, there are countries in which the murder of a pregnant woman would definitely not result in 2 murder convictions, and this is true in several US states and also Canada.
     
  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Who determines that right?
     
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  14. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to carry and gestate those millions? By all means.
     
  15. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    And I agree with that. I am pro-choice because I believe abortion is the mother’s right. But it is not the right of some random assailant.
     
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  16. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    Having sex produces children. But i guess you didn't know that.
     
  17. leov

    leov Active Member
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    Say , human life is from stage 'a' to stage 'z'. Everyone who lives or lived had to go through initial stage .Anyone who cuts that life short at any point may be called murder.
     
    #17 leov, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  18. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    Not always.
     
  19. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Abortion is not murder. Why? We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are not actually installed in our physical body until after birth when long term memories start to become possible.

    On the other hand, I'm not really for abortion. It's a responsibility thing. Abortion makes it easy not to make good choices and act responsibly.
     
  20. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    I'd say the torturing and slaughtering of a human fetus is cruel and inhumane. If a small stray tamed dog were to wander onto my property where it became trapped, it'd be inhumane of me to torture and kill this living being; likewise, it is inhumane and cruel to torture and kill a developing human being.
     
    #20 Salvador, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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