Is a person a Christian if...

[pearl]

I mentioned that I had just seen a movie about that incident, and a priest sitting just across the table stated that he was very familiar with this since he was their priest. I coulda fallen off my chair when he said that, so we started talking.

What an amazing experience, thanks for sharing. Was the conference by any chance at St Mary's College in Dayton?
There is little doubt that Romero was understood as a political activist which to John Paul meant Marxist. I think it was the reason he forbid any priest in the U.S. to run for office. Before that we did have a Representative in Washington, Father Robert Drinan.
Drinan introduced the first formal resolution for impeachment against President Richard M. Nixon. "Can we be silent about this flagrant violation of the Constitution?"

In 1980, Pope John Paul II issued a directive barring priests from holding public office, effectively ending Drinan’s political career.

http://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/2000-/Father-Robert-Frederick-Drinan-of-Massachusetts,-the-first-Catholic-priest-to-serve-as-a-voting-Member/

 

[metis]

What an amazing experience, thanks for sharing. Was the conference by any chance at St Mary's College in Dayton?

No, it was a retreat center-- something like Bergimo ...?

There is little doubt that Romero was understood as a political activist which to John Paul meant Marxist.

JPII was quite conservative, as were most of the Polish clergy at that time. I was in Poland in 1991 for two weeks and had conferences with church leaders.

BTW, one of my greatest thrills was having a conversation with Cesar Chavez at a UFWM retreat here in Michigan, and he was such a nice person to talk with. One of my heroes in life.

 

[pearl]

BTW, one of my greatest thrills was having a conversation with Cesar Chavez at a UFWM retreat here in Michigan, and he was such a nice person to talk with. One of my heroes in life.

Your a good voice for social justice

 

[RESOLUTION]

When we 'face' God for judgment I do not believe he keeps a check off record but judges on who one has become, the whole picture of, who we are will determine our real guilt before God. To your example of the adulterer; a guy looses his job and dreading having to tell his wife, stops off at bar and has a few. He is approached by a woman offering sympathy, one thing leads to another and he has committed adultery. And then remorse, asks God for forgiveness, if Catholic goes to confession, confesses to his wife. He feels remorse because of who he is. There is no real guilt before God. There is a couple who work together and plan to have an affair. There is no remorse, it is who they have become, there is real guilt before God.

Are you God? Do you really know God? What are the books in Daniel? Does a person sinning because they are drunk really excuse the sin.
If a man loses his Job would he love God so little that he would not trust him? Would he love his wife even less enough to get drunk if he knows he could do something like that when drunk?
We do not love God because of all that he has given us. We love God because he is the truth and loves us. Any relationship is based on love and trust especially when we have the truth
and know God is there for us no matter what. Job, teaches us that a self-pity party and the 'poor me' is not an act of faith or even belief in God.
God may judge our motives but I do not believe that distrusting God and sinning is a good motive.
If a man loves his wife and trusts and loves God then why would he go and get drunk or dread telling his wife who is one of the persons he should be able to share everything with?
Two wrongs do not make right. Love covers over many sins... But the thoughts you reveal are of flesh not someone who knows the way of God.

If one claims to love God and does not love the sinner, one is a liar.

Maybe you would have understood better is I had said the love of God is AGAPE, which is a self-sacrificing love the type of love God has for us.
The man in your first paragraph, if filled with Agape love would not have been worried about losing his Job he would have known God would provide.

If this is from my post, are you suggesting that the Muslim whom the Pope kissed the feet of, is a demon?

WHAT muslim are you talking about? Are you suggesting the Muslim or the Pope know better than God?
Are the Muslim or the Pope human beings or are YOU and YOU alone suggesting they are demons?
You question had nothing to do with anything discussed. You tried to lay a trap but fell into it yourself.
Where would such a question come from? Human beings are human beings. What they believe may be questionable
but they said of Christ....
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

If, you cannot judge correctly the things I have said, how can you possibly hope to know what is said by God?
If God is love and those who know him love how would you know those who belong to God?

RESOLUTION said:
We hear so often that atheist have lead good lives giving to the poor and living decently because they believe it is the right thing to do
.Does that save them or believing in Jesus Christ?

All salvation is through Christ, there is no 'outside' of Christ, even though one does not acknowledge Christ.

So what about King David who obeyed Gods laws and Abraham who had his faith accounted as righteousness.
God revealed the things of the saviour to them? Jesus said:King James Bible
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Why are the books opened at the end of time an all must give an account?

Your post reads as if you are afraid someone is going to get away without due punishment.

I do not accept that point of view. That is all your own belief and nothing to do with anything I actually posted.
I simply questioned the things people said and you answered things I said rather than studied what the true nature of the reply was about.

 

[pearl]

What are the books in Daniel?

I am more concerned with what is in the book of Jesus. God forgives who she will. Allow God to be God, even if it doesn't fit with your judgment.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

Ultimately it is a matter between you and God and no one else. It is better to be a sincere follower of the teachings of Christ, than to be a Christian in name only.

 

[MJFlores]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

What is the truth?
It is not based on views.
It is based on the truth - God's words in the bible (John 17:17)

Is Christ god?
Is it the truth?
Or is Christ sent by God?
If Christ is sent by God then he is not God (who sent him).

How many gods are there?
Or there is there only one God

Is the Trinity in the Bible?
Or is it a dogma voted by 318 dead bishops and pagan Emperor Constantine in 325 A.D. in Nicea (which is now part of Turkey)
Emperor Constantine and Christianity

Is our faith based on dead people or is it based on the Scriptures (the power of God for salvation)

 

[RESOLUTION]

I am more concerned with what is in the book of Jesus. God forgives who she will. Allow God to be God, even if it doesn't fit with your judgment.

God is a spirit. So the facade finally appears. When questioned on the matter regarding the books mentioned in Daniel you are unable to give an answer.
You then come out with the above and the mask is removed. You are not concerned with truth. Hence you are not able to find the truth no matter where you look.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

What does it matter what other people consider him to be.
Almost no one knows what anyone else believes in detail.
In a vast majority of cases if some one says they are Christian, that is what we accept.

I my self fit the scenario you set. I identify as an Anglican Christian though my beliefs about the nature of Jesus are more aligned to a Christian Unitarian.
Since coming to this conclusion I have found that this belief is actually becoming far more common amongst practising Christians than I had previously supposed.

Many people are no longer afraid to examine their beliefs and the scriptures, in a way that is more in line with modern thought and in line with modern science and knowledge of the ancient past.
In doing this much of the Books of Moses becomes more reasonable to believe as a mixture of early myth and ancient religious practice. This is also true of much of the new testament belief in miracles and fulfilment of prophecy.

Jesus' life and teachings can perfectly stand on their own, with out the belief in the more magical elements or prophecy.

We do not need to understand the exact relationship of Jesus to God, Or the exact nature of either, to call ourselves Christians.

If we continue to force others to believe in the unbelievable and the demonstrably untrue or unknowable, then Christianity becomes unsustainable.

 

[Grandliseur]

Are not those the words of the Trinity?

Well, Pearl, if you read the definition of the Trinity in the Athanasian Creed you will see that simply saying we are to preach in the name of the father, and the name of the son, etc. in no way carries this definition or supports it. When I read the Bible, I do not see support for the Trinity. E.g. in Revelation God is compared to the sun and Christ to the moon. That kind of sets the tone to me. (Revelation of John 21:23) That in Christ dwells the Godhead as found in Col 2:9: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. " - may not be denied. Each has to study on their own and determine what they believe from scripture.

 

[Desert Snake]

What is the truth?
It is not based on views.
It is based on the truth - God's words in the bible (John 17:17)

Is Christ god?
Is it the truth?
Or is Christ sent by God?
If Christ is sent by God then he is not God (who sent him).

How many gods are there?
Or there is there only one God

Is the Trinity in the Bible?
Or is it a dogma voted by 318 dead bishops and pagan Emperor Constantine in 325 A.D. in Nicea (which is now part of Turkey)
Emperor Constantine and Christianity

Is our faith based on dead people or is it based on the Scriptures (the power of God for salvation)

Youve got a problem when the father is referred to as the same title as Jesus. If you were actually presenting your argument, you would have an explanation for that.

 

[MJFlores]

Youve got a problem when the father is referred to as the same title as Jesus. If you were actually presenting your argument, you would have an explanation for that.

The Father is not Jesus
Jesus is the Son
How can the Son be his own Father?

It would be impossible and hilarious!

 

[pearl]

Each has to study on their own and determine what they believe from scripture.

All Scripture is to be believed. It needs to be determined what it meant for the Evangelists who wrote, and then what it means for us today. There is no Trinitarian formula in the NT, but there is the clear directive to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If that were to be defined today I'm sure the wording would be quite different.

 

[MJFlores]

TRY MULTIPLICATION IN the Trinity? Multiply? If we multiply One divine nature with three divine persons, you still have THREE (1 x 3 = 3). Simple mathematics, isn’t it?

When we multiply we usually say “1 times 1 times 1”, or “1 by 1 by 1.” When we add, we usually say “1 plus 1 plus 1”, or “1 and 1 and 1”, or “1, 1 and 1”.

Take note that the Trinity doctrine does not say “God the Father TIMES God the Son TIMES God the Holy Spirit.” Nor does it say “God the Father BY God the Son BY God the Holy Spirit.” The Catholic expression of the Trinity doctrine in Latin is “Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus” or in English “The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

Clearly then, the Trinity is addition, not multiplication. And being addition, 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals three. To make it 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 1 reduces it to an absurdity for it does not differ from “two and two equal five” which is an absurdity and which God cannot do, according to a Jesuit priest John Walsh in his book This is Catholicism,footnote on page 25:

“God, of course, cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms. He cannot, for instance, make two and two equal five.” (Walsh, John. This is Catholicism. New York: Image Book, 1959, p. 25)

If two and two equal five is an absurdity, says Walsh, thus one plus one plus one equal one is no better than this. If God cannot perform an absurdity, according to this Catholic priest, then God would never make up an absurdity such as the so-called Trinity.

Trinity is indeed an absurdity!

 

[Desert Snake]

TRY MULTIPLICATION IN the Trinity? Multiply? If we multiply One divine nature with three divine persons, you still have THREE (1 x 3 = 3). Simple mathematics, isn’t it?

When we multiply we usually say “1 times 1 times 1”, or “1 by 1 by 1.” When we add, we usually say “1 plus 1 plus 1”, or “1 and 1 and 1”, or “1, 1 and 1”.

Take note that the Trinity doctrine does not say “God the Father TIMES God the Son TIMES God the Holy Spirit.” Nor does it say “God the Father BY God the Son BY God the Holy Spirit.” The Catholic expression of the Trinity doctrine in Latin is “Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus” or in English “The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

View attachment 17662

Clearly then, the Trinity is addition, not multiplication. And being addition, 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals three. To make it 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 1 reduces it to an absurdity for it does not differ from “two and two equal five” which is an absurdity and which God cannot do, according to a Jesuit priest John Walsh in his book This is Catholicism,footnote on page 25:

“God, of course, cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms. He cannot, for instance, make two and two equal five.” (Walsh, John. This is Catholicism. New York: Image Book, 1959, p. 25)

If two and two equal five is an absurdity, says Walsh, thus one plus one plus one equal one is no better than this. If God cannot perform an absurdity, according to this Catholic priest, then God would never make up an absurdity such as the so-called Trinity.

Trinity is indeed an absurdity!

Great, this means that
Jesu created the heavens and earth.
Hebrews 1:5-10

 

[MJFlores]

Great, this means that
Jesu created the heavens and earth.
Hebrews 1:5-10

"Jesu created the heavens and earth."

Jesus was born in Bethlehem so how can he created the heavens and earth?
He had a mother, Mary so how can he create the heavens and earth?

Then you typed Hebrews 1:5-10 - maybe you were referring to Heb 1:8?
Another zombie translated verse.

Here is the screen shot of the Bible J.Moffatt translation:

James Moffatt - Wikipedia

 

[RESOLUTION]

Youve got a problem when the father is referred to as the same title as Jesus. If you were actually presenting your argument, you would have an explanation for that.

Jesus is the "Son of God" the title given him by God. Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

God made it clear for everyone that he was with Jesus. Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

The disciples warned about straying to new teachings by men. How false prophets had brought false teachings.
Jesus was the Son of God and is at the right hand of God. A true Son will do as his Father does. The answers are there for those who seek truth,

 

[Adamski]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

No

According to the church he founded the RCC you are not a Christian unless you, to the best of your ability acknowledge he is God

 

[metis]

According to the church he founded the RCC you are not a Christian unless you, to the best of your ability acknowledge he is God

Ya, but ya gotta be careful with that one ("mystery of the Trinity").

 

[RESOLUTION]

No

According to the church he founded the RCC you are not a Christian unless you, to the best of your ability acknowledge he is God

That is not true.... Not true because the RCC is NOT the Church of God in Christ Jesus. It is an abomination because it used the truth about Christ to gain power over people and not to make disciples of God through the power of truth and Spirit.

Jesus Christ, was a human being and he made God known to us.
God was with Jesus and it has been made very clear he is to be called the 'Son of God'.

How do we know this from Paul who taught the Gentiles?

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The first commandment by Christ is to LOVE GOD not him with all your heart.
He is seen stood on the right hand of God. He came with Gods authority and God taught through him.
But Christ came in the flesh NOT God.