Irish Woman Dies When Denied Abortion

[Drolefille]

All the pro-life people I know, including myself, would agree should have been given an abortion.

And yet there are many people, including politicians who have argued that there should be no exceptions. If they wrote that into law, this situation could easily happen here. Because they would write "No Exceptions." Even if it is completely illogical.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

All the pro-life people I know, including myself, would agree should have been given an abortion.

All the pro-life people I know would agree, too. They tend to be remarkably pro-choice when you actually put real-life situations to them.

From The Guardian:

Ireland's Medical Council guidelines state that "abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother".​

The problem is that judging between "health" and "life" can be a gray area, so this kind of thing will inevitably happen unless the law protects the mother's health and not just her life. The only people who should be entrusted to make these kinds of agonizing decisions are the mother, the doctor, and (one hopes) the father.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

All the pro-life people I know, including myself, would agree should have been given an abortion.

Granted, and a valid point. However, there are those who say otherwise, and sometimes they get their way.

Well that is the difference between what pro-life people say they believe ought to be the law, and what they actually believe should happen in practice, which is essentially pro-choice. I don't mean to pick on Apex here, but the difference between imposing a "life endangerment" vs. a "health endangerment" requirement on late-term abortion IS the debate between pro-life and pro-choice in this country. Mitt Romney for example said we should overturn Roe v. Wade and disallow abortion except to protect the life of the mother. Not her health. That puts government squarely in between patients and their doctors .... which is something Republicans are only against when they can associate it with Obamacare.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

All the pro-life people I know, including myself, would agree should have been given an abortion.

Since Catholic doctrine says that the fetus shouldn't be aborted in that case, I suspect you know at least some people who would disagree.

 

[Me Myself]

Granted, and a valid point. However, there are those who say otherwise, and sometimes they get their way.

It´s good that this is known

 

[Drolefille]

Since Catholic doctrine says that the fetus shouldn't be aborted in that case, I suspect you know at least some people who would disagree.

See also the woman who would have died while hemorrhaging and the nun who was excommunicated for allowing a life-saving "abortion" - again the fetus could not have survived the death of the mother, her body was likely already spontaneously aborting, the procedure is a D&C - as another example.

 

[Sunstone]

All the pro-life people I know, including myself, would agree should have been given an abortion.

It's nice that some pro-life people do not begrudge a woman the most minimal rights possible.

 

[Me Myself]

It's nice that some pro-life people do not begrudge a woman the most minimal rights possible.

The only right we "begrudge" women is to kill a human being for comfort.

 

[dgirl1986]

The only right we "begrudge" women is to kill a human being for comfort.

For comfort?

 

[Sunstone]

The only right we "begrudge" women is to kill a human being for comfort.

Some of you interpret "comfort" rather broadly to mean just about every reason except if her own life is in imminent danger. I see that as begrudging.

 

[Me Myself]

For comfort?

Yes.

If the baby is puting in peril the life of the mother, then it is either the mother or the child. Horrible scenario, but at least she is not making an inocent pay because she doesn´t "want" to be pregnant.

 

[dgirl1986]

Yes.

If the baby is puting in peril the life of the mother, then it is either the mother or the child. Horrible scenario, but at least she is not making an inocent pay because she doesn´t "want" to be pregnant.

In this particular scenario the baby was already dying. I think that is what makes this whole thing so sad.

I personally am not for abortion, but I think there needs to be allowances for special circumstances.

 

[Sunstone]

If the baby is puting in peril the life of the mother...

Do you think there are any other legitimate reasons for abortion besides the life of the mother?

 

[Me Myself]

In this particular scenario the baby was already dying. I think that is what makes this whole thing so sad.

I personally am not for abortion, but I think there needs to be allowances for special circumstances.

Yes I agree. As I said, it is not the same when the mother´s life is at risk, and in this case the baby didn´t even had a chance.

Do you think there are any other legitimate reasons for abortion besides the life of the mother?

Maybe, but I can´t think of another right now.

I can imagine a lot of reasons for which a woman wouldn´t want to be pregnant, but besides her life, I cannot think right now a reason that merits killing her child.

 

[Drolefille]

Yes.

If the baby is puting in peril the life of the mother, then it is either the mother or the child. Horrible scenario, but at least she is not making an inocent pay because she doesn´t "want" to be pregnant.

And this is what kills women.
Plain and simple. It's not overdramatic, it happens on a regular basis. And newsflash, when the woman dies, the fetus dies too... funny how that didn't change the Catholic Church's mind in that case with the Catholic Hospital and the excommunicated nun.

 

[Sunstone]

I can imagine a lot of reasons for which a woman wouldn´t want to be pregnant, but besides her life, I cannot think right now a reason that merits killing her child.

"Child" is almost certainly a medically inaccurate term here. Methinks your indulging yourself in the usage of loaded words.

Beyond that, do you think the health of the mother is a legitimate reason for an abortion? What about in cases of rape or incest? And is it a legitimate reason to terminate a pregnancy because you cannot financially support a child?

 

[Me Myself]

"Child" is almost certainly a medically inaccurate term here. Methinks your indulging yourself in the usage of loaded words.

Beyond that, do you think the health of the mother is a legitimate reason for an abortion? What about in cases of rape or incest? And is it a legitimate reason to terminate a pregnancy because you cannot financially support a child?

It´s a human being who has not reached puberty. That´s the definition of child.

I don´t think so on both accounts.

 

[dgirl1986]

Maybe, but I can´t think of another right now.

I can imagine a lot of reasons for which a woman wouldn´t want to be pregnant, but besides her life, I cannot think right now a reason that merits killing her child.

I think that rape and incest are good reasons (considered special circumstances).

 

[Me Myself]

And this is what kills women.

having a child while not wanting it kills a woman? o.o

I was completely unaware of that o.0

 

[idea]

There are always outlier cases... what is most important is to look at what is going on in the majority of the cases.

Why Do Women Have Abortions?

Why Do Women Have Abortions?
- a statistical breakdown*
Responses listed as primary reason %
Social Reasons (given as primary reason)
- Feels unready for child/responsibility 25%
- Feels she can't afford baby 23%
- Has all the children she wants/Other family responsibilities 19%
- Relationship problem/Single motherhood 8%
- Feels she isn't mature enough 7%
- Interference with education/career plans 4%
- Parents/Partner wants abortion <1%
- Other reasons <6.5%
TOTAL: 93%
(Approx.)

"Hard Cases" (given as primary reason)
- Mother's Health 4%
- Baby may have health problem 3%
- Rape or Incest <0.5%
TOTAL:
7%
(Approx.)

9/10 abortions - the vast majority - are not done for legitimate health reasons.


Here's another link - I've seen other studies that claim the percentage is as high as 33% trying to kill themselves after having an abortion.
Suicide Risk

the psychological aftereffects of abortion are also significant and in some cases life-threatening.

One study found that 65% of American women who had abortions experienced symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).1 Another study found high rates of PTSD11 after abortion -- rates which were lower than rates of PTSD in male Vietnam veterans.12

Unresolved post-abortion issues can lead to self-destructive behaviors, such as substance abuse; eating, sleep or anxiety disorders;10 or even suicide. Women who had abortions were 6 times more likely to commit suicide in the following year than were delivering women.3 A study of women for up to eight years after the pregnancy ended found a 2.5 times higher suicide rate after abortion than after giving birth.4

considering all the women who kill themselves after having an abortion due to PTSD, I think pro-life laws save more than just the lives of the children.