• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Iran's hardline presidential frontrunner could take the country back to a dark past...

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Peaceful protests are allowed. If you mean not allowed rampaging stores and destroying stuff and that kind of movement of protest is problematic to Iran, then it's same with US. And anyone who instigates such things in US would face punishment.

And if people die in the process, I believe eye for eye justice applies unless those families forgive the person, the person instigating protests in which lives are harmed should be punished.

We have elections in Iran. There is no reason to do these type of go in the streets and destroy stores protest stuff.

And the problem is Iran doesn't kill the people instigating this nor the people doing the protests that kill people. This is something I disagree with Khamanei and think he is weak in that regard. If it was Khomeini, at least their leaders would be executed a long time ago as they should be as they are responsible for violence they push.

If it was just protests, no one would care.

And it's costing us, these traitors being alive and causing chaos and causing people to die and businesses to be broken and looted.

And considering how much the west spends on causing regime change money wise, I do believe the only legitimate way to change the government should be either elections or educate the people to the extent you peacefully change the system and any thing otherwise should be seen as treachery.

Any talk of forcefully doing it - I personally believe, those people should be executed.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As Daniel the wise Prophet revealed from God
Ah a strawman, I don't even believe in Prophets

, everything in politics is tied to religion. It's a lie and western lie, they don't have any religious motive in all this.
No religious motive for death sentences even though death sentences are found in religious literature? No religious motive for killing a drinker of alcohol?

It's not Christianity that is the motive, but that's not the real religion of those in power is it now? Everyone knows this who has a wakeful eye.
Exactly in Iran it is Shia Islam that is in power
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Iran is a theocracy and should stay that way. I believe it should be grassroots in understanding religion rather then giving religious authorities authority when it's a false authority. To say otherwise, would mean we have disbelieve in Quran and Sunnah and Ahlulbayt because they teach a lot concerning government and why it should be the hands of people knowledgeable about God's commands and prohibitions.

In other words, you guys are trying to force us to leave our creed. Which we won't.

The way forward to me is to work with religion and show where interpretations are wrong concerning human rights but never to say we won't judge by God's revelation and not take God's guidance pertaining to government.

Never ever.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Also, I believe a Christian theocracy in the west, would be better then your government of oligarchs corrupt people they are.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
People always talk about no need of hellfire for humans to be just. Personally, I don't see any person who doesn't believe in that able to discern a conflict truthfully and justly.

God is on the side of oppressed not oppressors, this is why he creates a hell fire, because he knows the nature of disbelievers is to oppress and take side of oppressors or to watch it all happen without taking action against oppressors, they can't keep a live and let live reality, they might claim it, but can't let it happen.- a little fire in Iran sparked revolutionary hope in midde-east and for Muslims to overthrow their dictatorships and try to govern per revelation of Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet, and what happened? West spends more money on war against Iran then human rights of their own country. Health care and free-education in US is easy attainable, but if you want to spend all your money giving it to Israel and anti-Iran propaganda, and military spending, etc, then yeah it becomes a little bit inconvenient. Iran has free education. Something US doesn't ever want to give it's people for many reasons among them, they want to stay a republic and don't believe in democracy and knowledge being grass-roots. It's a fact.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Peaceful protests are allowed.
Then why are women who peacefully remove their hijab in public arrested and potentially face whipping in jail?

If you mean not allowed rampaging stores and destroying stuff and that kind of movement of protest is problematic to Iran, then it's same with US. And anyone who instigates such things in US would face punishment.
But would they be executed by courts?

And if people die in the process, I believe eye for eye justice applies unless those families forgive the person, the person instigating protests in which lives are harmed should be punished.
Whose life was harmed by the man drinking or by the families of the wrestler who was executed?

We have elections in Iran. There is no reason to do these type of go in the streets and destroy stores protest stuff.
You have rigged elections in which the supreme leader decides who will run and in which the people had so little confidence that you only got like 48per cent voter turnout, hardly power to the people.

This is something I disagree with Khamanei and think he is weak in that regard. If it was Khomeini, at least their leaders would be executed a long time ago as they should be as they are responsible for violence they push.
I'm unclear of what you are disagreeing with here

If it was just protests, no one would care.
So do you have any examples of people mass protesting peacefully against the regime that didn't get arrested?

And it's costing us, these traitors being alive and causing chaos and causing people to die and businesses to be broken and looted.
Are you making the claim that all protesters in Iran are causing people to die?

And considering how much the west spends on causing regime change money wise, I do believe the only legitimate way to change the government should be either elections or educate the people to the extent you peacefully change the system and any thing otherwise should be seen as treachery.

Any talk of forcefully doing it - I personally believe, those people should be executed.
Not imprisoned? And with their candidates not allowed to run who are they supposed to vote for?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know what go do some research yourself in the revolution of Iran and how US funded MKO and how MKO was a terrorist organization killing people by bombs.

You spend too much money on overthrowing a theocracy in Iran. It's not going away, if you care about human rights, you have to change the people's mind by interpreting Quran and Sunnah in a way that promotes those human rights.

Theocracy is embedded in Islam. It's a requirement for any believer to support that over anything else.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
By the way, the west can choose to do what it wants with us and middle-east, I place my trust in God and his Authority on earth (Imam Mahdi), it's as Mohamad said to Salman Farsi:

"I wept a lot," said Salman, "and my yearning became intense.” I said, "O Messenger of Allah, is it a pledge from you?"

' "Yes, by the One Who sent me and entrusted me with the Message; it is a pledge from me and from 'Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, and the nine Imams descended from the children of al-Husayn, to you and those who are with us, and those of us who are oppressed. Whoever is truly sincere in his belief, then by Allah, Salman, let Iblis and his armies come. Whoever has pure disbelief will be punished by retaliation, torture and inheritance (i.e. by others rather than them). Your Lord will not wrong anyone. It is we who are indicated in this verse:



وَنُرِيدُ أَن نَّمُنَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ اسْتُضْعِفُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَنَجْعَلَهُمْ أَئِمَّةً وَنَجْعَلَهُمُ الْوَارِثِينَ. وَنُمَكِّنَ لَهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَنُرِي فِرْعَوْنَ وَهَامَانَ وَجُنُودَهُمَا مِنْهُم مَّا كَانُوا يَحْذَرُونَ



We desire to bestow a favour upon those who are are deemed weak in the land, and to make them the leaders, and to make them the heirs, and to grant them power in the land, and to make Pharaoh, Haman and their armies see from them what they feared." ' (28:5-6)

Salman said, “I took leave of the Messenger of Allah, completely unconcerned as to how Salman would meet death, or how death would meet him.”
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Iran is a theocracy and should stay that way. I believe it should be grassroots in understanding religion rather then giving religious authorities authority when it's a false authority.
But who gets to determine which religious authorities are false? Certainly not the oppressed in Iran as it currently stands.

To say otherwise, would mean we have disbelieve in Quran and Sunnah and Ahlulbayt because they teach a lot concerning government and why it should be the hands of people knowledgeable about God's commands and prohibitions.

In other words, you guys are trying to force us to leave our creed. Which we won't.
I'm not trying to force you to leave your creed, just explaining where your creed gets it wrong. And you dont get to speak for "we", polls in Iran are showing massive discontent with traditional religion in Iran.

The way forward to me is to work with religion and show where interpretations are wrong concerning human rights but never to say we won't judge by God's revelation and not take God's guidance pertaining to government.
To me a more honest way to go is to show that God has not "revealed" anything, so there is nothing to judge by.

As for God's guidance I believe God wants power to be in the hands of people so they can protect themselves from the tyranny of the ruling class, so to me it looks as though you are turning your back on God's guidance.

In my opinion.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You know what go do some research yourself in the revolution of Iran and how US funded MKO and how MKO was a terrorist organization killing people by bombs.
I don't doubt that MKO were a terrorist organisation, but there are some issues here.
1) If terrorists can be safely isolated i see no reason to martyr them (they become POWs subjected to conventions)
2) There is no reason to ask which of the MKO are regular in prayers etc before executing them, this muddies the waters about are they being executed for treason or merely apostasy
3)consumption of alcohol or wresters protesting the regime is no indication of joining the MKO

You spend too much money on overthrowing a theocracy in Iran. It's not going away
So your earlier claim that it could be peacefully voted away is void?

if you care about human rights, you have to change the people's mind by interpreting Quran and Sunnah in a way that promotes those human rights.
Where that can honestly be done i support it fully, and where it can be dishonestly gotten away with i consider it the lesser of two evils.

Theocracy is embedded in Islam. It's a requirement for any believer to support that over anything else.
So again you admit that there is no peaceful path for voting out theocracy?
What about those who believe in Islam but not in theocracy, how do they exercise their voice?
In my opinion.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Link
Post #28 seems like an appropriate response for someone threatening invasion, you are operating under misconception if you think I want Iran to be invaded.

I just want Iran to respect the rights of its citizens, and it is especially the case that of the majority dont want a theocracy they shouldn't be forced to live under one
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Also, I believe a Christian theocracy in the west, would be better then your government of oligarchs corrupt people they are.
So you believe Trump is better than numerous other left leaning candidates including in other Western countries?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Iran's hardline presidential frontrunner could take the country back to a dark past, just as Iranians are itching for change

[Ebrahim] 'Raisi has played a decades-long role in a bloody crackdown on Iranian dissidents. The Center for Human Rights in Iran (CHRI) has accused him of crimes against humanity for being part of a four-man "death committee" that oversaw the execution of up to 5,000 political prisoners in 1988.

Raisi has never commented on these allegations, but it's widely believed that he rarely leaves Iran for fear of retribution or international justice over the executions.

More recently, his two years as Iran's chief justice were marked by the intensified repression of dissent and human rights abuses, according to CHRI. Among the many hardline moves of his tenure was the first execution in decades of a man for alcohol consumption.

Late last year, a young wrestler was hanged in what human rights groups have described as a "travesty of justice" suspected to be linked to his participation in 2018 anti-government protests...'

Source: Ebrahim Raisi, Iran's likely next president, could take the country back to a dark past - CNN

It looks to me like life will be very difficult for most Iranians under such a conservative cleric.

In my opinion.

PNAC concluded that Iran, North Korea, and Iraq loomed, with their wealth and technology, as the greatest threats to world peace, as the newest rivals for nukes. PNAC suggested another Pearl Harbor (actually, the 911 attack) as a means to create a war with them to forestall an all-out nuclear war.

President W. Bush and brother Jeb were members of PNAC before the 911 attack. For the first time ever, the US was conducting a hijacking drill, during the 911 attack, advising pilots to ignore the 911 attack planes because they were part of a drill. After the 911 attack, members of Osama bin Laden's family were given special flights to get out of the US, while all other Americans were stranded (due to the 911 attack). For example, Senator Edward Kennedy could not fly back into the US.

If you are worried about Iran being held back (dark ages) by its religion, please don't give it another thought. It is difficult for dark ages physicists to design nukes.

Before the Ayatollah Khomeni took power, Iranian students extolled the virtues of a moral and religious government. Afterwards, Khomeni was a tyrant who proclaimed death to anyone educated in America, for fear that they would corrupt Iran.

I-a-tol-a-you-so (know-it-all in Italian). I told them that he would throw Iran into the dark ages, and that I was quite happy that that was the case. Indeed, I was right.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
For believers, I think we all don't really care what your media has to say, they proven to be deceptive and insincere through and through. However, we care in the sense of how massively you guys are deceived by them, but this is your responsibility, not ours, but we do our best to clarify, at the end, everyone clings to which tree they believed is blessed, the haters of the truly blessed word that is pure and from God will be accounted for their hate, while the believers who hate the haters, will be rewarded for their siding with the truthful.

We don't care what you don't care about, except that the people of the middle east should try to understand someone else's point of view, and not attack them.

Terrorists are deceived into believing that the US is the enemy (hence, the unannounced 911 attack). Propaganda is rife in the middle east. For example, the al Qaeda came into the Philippines, and got political power, then became horrible dictators. They convinced the people that the Jews were the troublemakers of the world, and, since none had ever seen Jews, they believed them.

We try not to cling to supposedly blessed trees, but cling with truth.

Those who hate the haters are, in turn, hated.

Those who hate the haters who hate the haters, are also hated.

Hatred is an ever-widening spiral. One must choose a path of peace, despite the maelstrom around them.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
These debates lead no where which is why I usually avoid political discussions. Mental clarity and revelation from God go together.

US is definitely at war with the true Islam, it likes a lot of fake versions, but it's at war with true Islam for sure.

You guys can have the last word, I'm bowing out.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Iran is hated only because it has taken a stance against the west and their bullying ways and has not accept the state of the world that the west colonized and enforced by gun shot.
I doubt Iran is hated for such, much like Russia or North Korea aren't either, but when any government or those in power are rather dictatorial concerning the freedoms of their citizens - as recently seen in the latest Iranian election, and much like Russia, and certainly in the case of North Korea, people are less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt - especially when the country might be aspiring to develop nuclear weapons and which would likely force other nations to attack Iran before such happens. Iran, like a few other countries, is seen as dangerous because it seemingly is dedicated to the more fundamental Islam (supporting or spreading such around the world) and which is seemingly also opposed to human rights in the form of freedoms. Why wouldn't the West, and all other nations that regard freedoms as being a higher aim than a single religious belief, not be suspicious and worried as to their behaviour, but that hardly equates to hate.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Iran has free education and their health care is subsidized to the extent it's practically free (just they make you pay a little so you don't abuse it).

This while US with all it's robbing ways, doesn't even provide their own people with health care and free education. Pathetic to even begin to talk about human rights.

All they do is kill people as if they're the world police and everything they do must be accepted.
Very good point. US should be ashamed

That indeed proves that the US has no right to speak about human rights. Big Pharma is all about exploiting people, asking exorbitant high inhumane prices for health care.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
In my opinion.
In your opinion. :)

I haven't got a clue whether this new leader is seriously bad or not, but the fact that Israel's leaders have ranted and raged about this man is enough for me to wait and see how Iran gets on under his leadership.

In the UK we have experienced assassination poisonings here and heard about opposition leaders in other countries being poisoned, then locked up on false charges..... yet we would still shake hands with their leaders, hug 'em even for a trade deal.
. You know what I mean.
 
Top