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Involvement in the Ukrainian Issue

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
So, this is my position that I've developed from ingesting various sources regarding this conflict:

Basically, it sounds like the Crimea should have been a part of Russia all along, and that the majority of Crimeans would prefer to be Russian.

Russia was just a jerk about how they achieved this goal.

As far as the involvement of the U.S. or other countries not directly affected, I really think we just need to butt out.

We're just stirring the pot and making a tense situation even more hostile. Indeed, you could say that our actions even caused this by threatening Russia with a NATO base in the Ukraine. Let the Ukrainians and the Russians figure things out, perhaps with help from countries that have a more legitimate stake in the outcome.

Also, I think sanctions are a joke.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We agree completely.

article-2535709-1A7D371000000578-703_964x531.jpg
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
When it comes to politics, opponents are always in the wrong, even when they're not by virtue of being an opponent. It's all about face.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
So, this is my position that I've developed from ingesting various sources regarding this conflict:

Basically, it sounds like the Crimea should have been a part of Russia all along, and that the majority of Crimeans would prefer to be Russian.

Russia was just a jerk about how they achieved this goal.

As far as the involvement of the U.S. or other countries not directly affected, I really think we just need to butt out.

We're just stirring the pot and making a tense situation even more hostile. Indeed, you could say that our actions even caused this by threatening Russia with a NATO base in the Ukraine. Let the Ukrainians and the Russians figure things out, perhaps with help from countries that have a more legitimate stake in the outcome.

Also, I think sanctions are a joke.

I agree but I don't have problems with sanctions.....
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Basically Putin holds all of the cards. If he wants the Eastern Ukraine he will take it, if he wants all of the Ukraine he will take it. From the following Article there are four scenarios:
First, the Russians could cut all the way across Ukraine to the pro-Russian enclave of Transdniester in Moldova; second, they could try to take Kiev; third, they could take the predominantly Russian-speaking cities of southeastern Ukraine; and finally, they could take the cities necessary to establish a land corridor to Crimea.
I do not believe that US and Europe will use direct military intervention in any of the above scenarios because there is no direct threat to the US or European security. There will be no crippling sanctions against Russia, Europe will not support it. Russia holds the cards as far as the energy source of Europe is concerned. All of the talk about the US supplying LNG to Europe is basically not economical feasible. All Russia would have to do is undercut the cost that the US would have to charge. That is unless the federal government would pay the private companies the difference. One must also remember that wars have been started over economic issues. One would have to ask "would Putin go to war or threaten war if the fate of the Russian economy was threatened". I can't answer that question, only Putin can.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Why do you think so?

I agree but I don't have problems with sanctions.....

When the Russians retaliated by sanctioning various U.S. government members in a tit-for-tat, those sanctioned wore it like a badge of honor. I imagine the Russians that were sanctioned felt the same way. It's not particularly damaging, and only raises their esteem in their own countries.

As for economic sanctions, they seem to just hurt the regular people more than the government, causing resentment, thereby basically riling up the civilians against us, when before they may have been ambivalent to the whole thing.

But mostly, sanctions simply seem to be a lip-service sort of action: We want to seem like we are doing stuff without actually having to do stuff.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
When the Russians retaliated by sanctioning various U.S. government members in a tit-for-tat, those sanctioned wore it like a badge of honor. I imagine the Russians that were sanctioned felt the same way. It's not particularly damaging, and only raises their esteem in their own countries.

As for economic sanctions, they seem to just hurt the regular people more than the government, causing resentment, thereby basically riling up the civilians against us, when before they may have been ambivalent to the whole thing.

But mostly, sanctions simply seem to be a lip-service sort of action: We want to seem like we are doing stuff without actually having to do stuff.

I agree. What is going on closely resembles a playground altercation between children. Unfortunately, these children happen to have weapons. President Obama's comments, I suspect, are not easing the tensions. When Obama said that Russia was nothing more than a regional power it had to anger Putin. In addition if there were Russians that did not exactly approve of Putin's actions, this had to be a direct insult to the pride of the average Russian. I think President Obama is playing a very dangerous game with someone I really don't think he actually understands. Obama's other comment do not help. Following copied from: KRAUTHAMMER: Putin a lucky 19th-century man
not in Russia’s interest, not even strategically clever. Indeed, it’s a sign of weakness.
Putin is on the wrong side of history
“alignments of nations rooted in the cleavages of a long-gone Cold War” — like NATO? — “make no sense in an interconnected world.”
In addition comments by others in Obama's administration are not helping the situation.
John Kerry says Putin’s is “really 19th-century behavior in the 21st century.”
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
So, this is my position that I've developed from ingesting various sources regarding this conflict:

Basically, it sounds like the Crimea should have been a part of Russia all along, and that the majority of Crimeans would prefer to be Russian.

Russia was just a jerk about how they achieved this goal.

As far as the involvement of the U.S. or other countries not directly affected, I really think we just need to butt out.

We're just stirring the pot and making a tense situation even more hostile. Indeed, you could say that our actions even caused this by threatening Russia with a NATO base in the Ukraine. Let the Ukrainians and the Russians figure things out, perhaps with help from countries that have a more legitimate stake in the outcome.

Also, I think sanctions are a joke.
Just so.
 
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