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Invisible Light

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
are the things we can't see by visible light, or the invisible light things, insights?


out of darkness a light appears?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Infrared and ultraviolet are types of 'invisible light'. And yes, we can see things with them that we can't see using visible light.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Infrared and ultraviolet are types of 'invisible light'. And yes, we can see things with them that we can't see using visible light.


welcome back but didn't it take insight to realize that there might be somethings that aren't easily, readily observable and through insight are realized?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
welcome back but didn't it take insight to realize that there might be somethings that aren't easily, readily observable and through insight are realized?


Huh? I don't understand what you are trying to say.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
without imagination, there can be nothing new discovered, observed outside the sense of sight, smell, taste, touch, hearing because it's outside of mind?

I don't know why you think that it takes imagination to discover. It does take observation.

For example, infrared light was discovered by someone studying the spectrum produced from a prism. He looked at how much each type of light heated up a background. He found a nice progression in temperatures, but that progression continued past the red end of the spectrum.

So he realized there was a type of 'light' just past red that we do not see.

Similar things happen with sound. The point is that 'invisible' things produce effects that we can see and measure and thereby know they are there and what their properties are.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I don't know why you think that it takes imagination to discover. It does take observation.

For example, infrared light was discovered by someone studying the spectrum produced from a prism. He looked at how much each type of light heated up a background. He found a nice progression in temperatures, but that progression continued past the red end of the spectrum.

So he realized there was a type of 'light' just past red that we do not see.

Similar things happen with sound. The point is that 'invisible' things produce effects that we can see and measure and thereby know they are there and what their properties are.
so you don't think abstract thinking is necessary to discover those things that aren't readily, or easily observable with the 5 senses?


so the observer of the prism recognized that something was occurring that went past what the red end of the spectrum, had they stopped at what they knew, would we discover what we don't know?


when you don't have knowledge of something, what do you have?

other great apes have minds that can observe phenomena; so what separates their minds from human minds? why can't they understand theoretical things? or things they can't observe?


why did humans 1000 yrs ago not know the things they know now? does reality change? or does the observer change?
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
so you don't think abstract thinking is necessary to discover those things that aren't readily, or easily observable with the 5 senses?

I am leery of the use of abstract thinking that isn't supported by observations.

so the observer of the prism recognized that something was occurring that went past what the red end of the spectrum, had they stopped at what they knew, would we discover what we don't know?

But is that an act of imagination or simply trying to find boundaries?


when you don't have knowledge of something, what do you have?

Ignorance?

other great apes have minds that can observe phenomena; so what separates their minds from human minds? why can't they understand theoretical things? or things they can't observe?

It doesn't appear that they have the ability to formulate abstract rules and test them. Their usage of tools is also minimal, which limits their ability to explore more.

why did humans 1000 yrs ago not know the things they know now? does reality change? or does the observer change?

We build on the discoveries of those who came before us. The reality is the same, but we started out with superstitions and it took a lot of time to show those were wrong and find the right path. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have thought to do the experiments of Galileo on falling objects. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have thought about how to make lenses and put them together into a telescope or microscope. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have noticed that light things and heavy things actually fall at the same rate (and easy thing to test).

Why not? Culture, education, incorrect assumptions, fear of ridicule, etc.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I am leery of the use of abstract thinking that isn't supported by observations.
you're making a subjective statement about abstract thinking. i didn't imply that abstract thinking didn't need to be supported without observation. i'm stating that there are observations that can't be made without abstract thinking.



But is that an act of imagination or simply trying to find boundaries?
trying to find boundaries; requires pathfinders. those who become conditioned to knowledge known and maintaining those learned boundaries does not equate to moving beyond those limitations. not searching beyond those boundaries won't lead to new discoveries. you have to think in the abstract to overcome limitations; conditioned by knowledge of something doesn't lead to knowledge of everything.




Ignorance?
so the knowledgeable has to use what they do know about reality to navigate it but they also can realize they don't know what lies beyond the reality that they do understand. thus we have innovators who create things out of the raw material nature provides. that being goes from a reaction to it's environment to a creator of it's environment.



It doesn't appear that they have the ability to formulate abstract rules and test them. Their usage of tools is also minimal, which limits their ability to explore more.
yep



We build on the discoveries of those who came before us. The reality is the same, but we started out with superstitions and it took a lot of time to show those were wrong and find the right path. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have thought to do the experiments of Galileo on falling objects. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have thought about how to make lenses and put them together into a telescope or microscope. Nobody 1000 years ago seems to have noticed that light things and heavy things actually fall at the same rate (and easy thing to test).

Why not? Culture, education, incorrect assumptions, fear of ridicule, etc.
we start with an idea and then..............
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
you're making a subjective statement about abstract thinking. i didn't imply that abstract thinking didn't need to be supported without observation. i'm stating that there are observations that can't be made without abstract thinking.

OK, with that I disagree. There are observations that can't be *understood* without abstract thinking.

trying to find boundaries; requires pathfinders. those who become conditioned to knowledge known and maintaining those learned boundaries does not equate to moving beyond those limitations. not searching beyond those boundaries won't lead to new discoveries. you have to think in the abstract to overcome limitations; conditioned by knowledge of something doesn't lead to knowledge of everything.

so the knowledgeable has to use what they do know about reality to navigate it but they also can realize they don't know what lies beyond the reality that they do understand. thus we have innovators who create things out of the raw material nature provides. that being goes from a reaction to it's environment to a creator of it's environment.

Yes, imagination is required to push into new areas of thought. I'm still failing to see your point.

yep

we start with an idea and then..............

Explore its consequences, see what other ideas it challenges, and then test it to see if it works in practice.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
OK, with that I disagree. There are observations that can't be *understood* without abstract thinking.



Yes, imagination is required to push into new areas of thought. I'm still failing to see your point.



Explore its consequences, see what other ideas it challenges, and then test it to see if it works in practice.
that without imagination exploration would stop. the scientific method uses hypothesis, or educated guess, is what imagination is.

imagination - he faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses.
 
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