Introversion or the Journey Inward

[Fool]

I think you are being presumptuous

Revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.


and the gross is considered a whole


the number of a man
the number of an angel, servant of god, son of god, prophet


Revelation 21:17
And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.


I AM the city set on a hill, the light of the world

 

[Fool]

The NT is in Greek not Hebrew

uh huh

strong's G3319

you've forgotten the height from which you have fallen?

 

[Windwalker]

What Christ actually stated was, "ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστίν." This is to say, "the Kingdom of God is in your midst."

That's not how all translations render it, for instance the King Jame Version is "within you". If you read the link I attached, it shows how that entos is never translated anywhere as "among". It's always "inside". For instance, Jesus said "Make clean the inside of the cup first". That word for "inside" is entos. The same word as it appears in what you quoted, "ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστίν.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

uh huh

strong's G3319

And according to Strong's the Greek says:
In the middle
Midst
Amongst.

Just like Max and I said. Both of us being two ordained ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ from two different and disparate traditions of the Christian religion interpreting that verse in the same exact way when we as Christians can hardly agree on lunch. Why do we agree then? Because it is very clear within the context of the verse what Jesus is saying and your out-of-context interpretation just doesn't cut the mustard. Do you want to take a do-over?

 

[Fool]

And according to Strong's the Greek says:
In the middle
Midst
Amongst.

Just like Max and I said. Both of us being two ordained ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ from two different and disparate traditions of the Christian religion interpreting that verse in the same exact way when we as Christians can hardly agree on lunch. Why do we agree then? Because it is very clear within the context of the verse what Jesus is saying and your out-of-context interpretation just doesn't cut the mustard. Do you want to take a do-over?

i'm not impressed by ordainments, outward appearances. the bible doesn't promote god as a respecter of person's nor idolatry. isaiah spoke the truth of such, all men's self-righteousness is as filthy rags.


i have seen it in the silence.


be still and know god. i will be exalted among the nations, i will be exalted in the earth.

the end is at the beginning. strange world.


Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

That's not how all translations render it, for instance the King Jame Version is "within you". If you read the link I attached, it shows how that entos is never translated anywhere as "among". It's always "inside". For instance, Jesus said "Make clean the inside of the cup first". That word for "inside" is entos. The same word as it appears in what you quoted, "ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστίν.

Jesus is talking to them collectively not as individuals, so he is not saying that it is the Kingdom of God is within them as individuals (that would be against everything he teaches) but as a community of believers, as an emancipatory collective of oppressed people harmoniously working towards their liberation as a church.

 

[David T]

i stole it from the king. giggles

Luke 17:21

And he gave us his foot as well! We use his foot at work daily. Did you know many men have a difficult time with length!

Btw fool rev bob will be upset i am not on topic but this is RF afterall. Newbies.

 

[Windwalker]

we're talking about an involution of consciousness?

Hmmm... I'm not sure what you are meaning by that. Involution is an enfolding of something. In various metaphysical philosophies, that points to all of creation being an enfolding of Spirit through the process of involution, moving down the great chain of being from spirit to soul, to mind, to body, to the material world at its base. Where evolution is the unfolding of that back up the great chain of being, from the material world, to body, to mind, to soul, to spirit. In a true sense of the word, yes everything that exists in through the involution of Consciousness.

But that's not exactly what I was trying to point to. I'm talking how by looking to a deity form outside of ourselves, or any conceptual image of the Divine, or Spirit, or God, this is what is known as the cataphatic approach vs. the apophatic approach. The cataphatic is a positive affirmation, or as I like to see it Saguna Brahman, which means "God with qualities". The apophatic approach is through negation of any ideas, concepts, models, images, etc. That compares with Nigurna Brahman, which is "God without qualities" (an interesting paradox to then call it God anything ).

So my point was that through externalized images of the Divine, one can very much awaken the Divine within, which then becomes known from within you. This then opens to an Awakening of the Self and Self Realization. You are the God you sought, and have been all along.

There is a great quote I saved when I read it explained a certain way I thought beautifully captures this:

"But this is not God as an ontological other, set apart from the cosmos, from humans, and from creation at large. Rather, it is God as an archetypal summit of one's own Consciousness. John Blofeld quotes Edward Conze on the Vajrayana Buddhist viewpoint: " 'It is the emptiness of everything which allows the identification to take place - the emptiness [which means "transcendental openness" or "non-obstruction"] which is in us coming together with the emptiness which is the deity. By visualizing that identification 'we actually do become the deity. The subject is identified with the object of faith. The worship, the worshiper, and the worshiped, those three are not separate' ". At its peak, the soul becomes one, literally one, with the deity-form, with the dhyani-buddha, with (choose whatever term one prefers) God. One dissolves into Deity, as Deity - that Deity which, from the beginning, has been one's own Self or highest Archetype."


~Ken Wilber, Eye to Eye, pg. 85​

 

[Fool]

Jesus is talking to them collectively not as individuals, so he is not saying that it is the Kingdom of God is within them as individuals (that would be against everything he teaches) but as a community of believers, as an emancipatory collective of oppressed people harmoniously working towards their liberation as a church.

collectively, we're all christ. it is the illusion of duality that creates conflict.

jesus didn't come to promote himself above others. he came to make all into one, or like himself servants of the one god. thus his utterance to peter at john 21:15.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

jesus didn't come to promote himself above others

Then why did you call him King?

 

[Fool]

And he gave us his foot as well! We use his foot at work daily. Did you know many men have a difficult time with length!

Btw fool rev bob will be upset i am not on topic but this is RF afterall. Newbies.

understood and noted.

many have problems with boundaries and understanding who has control of what. thank you

 

[sooda]

Where did you get that?

I think there is some truth to that statement, but one also has to be careful not to get bogged down in navel gazing.

There's more to life than concentrating on your "inner being".. There's a lot to DO like love people, feed them, help them and make the world a better place.

 

[Fool]

Then why did you call him King?

jesus washed the feet of kings. he didn't take himself to seriously to covet the name and promote himself above his equal. he who wishes to be greatest is called to be servant to all, even her enemies.


i bow to all. namaste

 

[sooda]

Then why did you call him King?

He was a peasant from Galilee not a king.

 

[Fool]

I think there is some truth to that statement, but one also has to be careful not to get bogged down in navel gazing.

There's more to life than concentrating on your "inner being".. There's a lot to DO like love people, feed them, help them and make the world a better place.

exactly. love calls us to uplift the poor in spirit; otherwise we are to focused on just "our" heaven and not serving heaven for all.

 

[sooda]

jesus washed the feet of kings. he didn't take himself to seriously to covet the name and promote himself above his equal. he who wishes to be greatest is called to be servant to all, even her enemies.


i bow to all. namaste

Who were these kings? I don't recall Jesus washing the feet of kings.

 

[Fool]

Who were these kings? I don't recall Jesus washing the feet of kings.

the twelve disciples, learning by example that all are our responsibility to serve and to mirror.

 

[sooda]

the twelve disciples, learning by example that all are our responsibility to serve and to mirror.

Which kings did they wash feet?

 

[Fool]

Which kings did they wash feet?

there is service to self and there is service to all as self.

self service is necessary to meet basic needs for self.

once those needs have been met then service to all as self can result in self-actualization.


everyone is a queen or king being buddha, christ, what ever term you wish to use. kings and queens are called to serve as guardians of those they serve. they do not serve by right of inheritance but by skill and experience.


the parable of the talents explains this

 

[sun rise]

Leaving the debate about Jesus and going back to the OP, I find this quote responsive:

The Creator - Come and See

Various religions depict the Creator as something outside of us. But Kabbalah explains that it is forbidden to imagine the Creator as an image of any kind, that the Creator is a quality that exists within each of us.

The Creator is the quality of love and bestowal. The meaning of the word “Creator” (Borre in Hebrew) is “Come and See” (Bo u Re’e), meaning come and discover this quality within you.

There is no external, foreign element for whom we work! We work on correcting ourselves, on attaining the qualities of love and giving, the Creator.

Around two thousand years ago, we lost the feeling of the Creator—we were exiled and lost the true picture of the world. We began to think that the Creator was someone who existed separately from us, rather than a quality that appeared within us.

Instead of depicting the Creator as the primary and foremost quality of Creation, which clothes within us, we began to think of Him as a separate and foreign entity.

Rav Michael Laitman