Intercessory prayer, miraculous cures and the like.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

That's because prayer or not, things go just the way they go. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worst regardless of religious affiliation.

It should be noted that those siding with prayer or intercession notably omit controls for their claims to see if there's any validity or not because they already know what the reality and outcome will be.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That's because prayer or not, things go just the way they go. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worst regardless of religious affiliation.

Then why believe in divine intervention?

 

[Milton Platt]

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

Yes, and it is puzzling that amputees seem to be beyond the scope of god's healing powers (or he hates them for some reason).

 

[Enoch07]

Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

From what I understand. The folks that don't get help were meant to "come home". Take myself for example. I am a devout follower. But I was born with a rare autoimmune disease for which there is no cure. This will kill me, no amount of prayer will save me. If the Lord still has use for me here, I will be healed or go into remission at least. If not then simply it is my time to go home. And I'm ok with that, whichever way it works out.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, and it is puzzling that amputees seem to be beyond the scope of god's healing powers (or he hates them for some reason).

Especially if it's their sexual bits that are wounded!

 

[Terry Sampson]

Given how seldom ... cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious?

Your choice of the word "capricious" threw me. My quick google search yielded this definition: "given to sudden and unaccountable changes of mood or behavior", and I couldn't figure out which mood or behavior" it is that you're calling "capricious", so I just skipped that part and moved your question mark to the left, following "why", to which I respond as follows:

Might you be missing the comforting feeling a person in a difficult situation "may" get knowing that folks around within earshot care even if they can't do anything to alleviate the difficult situation?

Granted, all too often intercessory prayer is offered or, worse, given without solicitation, e.g. when well-meaning folks gather around a person who's been deaf all their life and pray for a miraculous healing when the last thing such a person wants is to be thrust, helter-skelter, into a hearing world without a clue how that world actually works.

[Note: cochlear implants are not, IMO, advisable when a person has been profoundly deaf all their life and never learned to read lips, no matter how much a parent wants their grown kid "to fit in." Moral: Don't pray for someone who has physical condition that they are quite comfortable living with.]

 

[Wasp]

Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

Why not, given how often they survive?

Praying for an ill person is a good deed in itself. But a person asking from God should obey God.

 

[George-ananda]

As a believer in miraculous healings I would say the natural way has its course for reasons we can not always see. In certain cases for good reasons we can also not see from our physical-only perspective healing energies and miracles occur.

But in the end we are to learn the physical body is not what ultimately matters anyway although people make a big deal of physical healing miracles.

 

[JJ50]

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

An excellent question. In my opinion, either god is a psycho who likes to see people suffer and only answers a prayer in a positive fashion if in a good mood, or more likely it doesn't exist.

 

[iam1me]

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

First off, I'd like to point out that most of the people claiming such things aren't even familiar with what Christianity teaches concerning prayer. For instance:

Matthew 6:5-8 “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners d]">[d]so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.​

So then, all of those people who are putting on a big public show are to be regarded as hypocrites according to Christ. Prayer is to be done in private, not put on display - at least within Christianity. As such, we can disregard those groups and individuals who do such things as being representative of what the scriptures actually teach. Other religions will need to be addressed separately of course.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that prayer is never treated in scripture as a cure-all for life's problems. Rather divine intervention and spiritual gifts were reserved for select individuals that were given unique callings by God - these miracles serving both to aid them in fulfilling their calling and to make it clear that God was with them, that they were in fact sent by God.

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.​

Of course, there's no reason why we couldn't see such miracles today. Jesus even says:

John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.​

So then, you may ask, why are such things so rare? I would reply that most Christians and the churches at large have lost their way. That fact is especially clear among the many evangelical Christians who blindly follow Trump and who treat him as some kind of holy man. They don't understand the first thing about Christianity - and they certainly don't live according to its teachings. As such, we shouldn't expect to see anything coming out of them - they are dead and useless. At least in America, Christianity is in serious need of a revival movement to return to what it means to be a Christian.

 

[JJ50]

First off, I'd like to point out that most of the people claiming such things aren't even familiar with what Christianity teaches concerning prayer. For instance:

Matthew 6:5-8 “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners d]">[d]so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.​

So then, all of those people who are putting on a big public show are to be regarded as hypocrites according to Christ. Prayer is to be done in private, not put on display - at least within Christianity. As such, we can disregard those groups and individuals who do such things as being representative of what the scriptures actually teach. Other religions will need to be addressed separately of course.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that prayer is never treated in scripture as a cure-all for life's problems. Rather divine intervention and spiritual gifts were reserved for select individuals that were given unique callings by God - these miracles serving both to aid them in fulfilling their calling and to make it clear that God was with them, that they were in fact sent by God.

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.​

Of course, there's no reason why we couldn't see such miracles today. Jesus even says:

John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.​

So then, you may ask, why are such things so rare? I would reply that most Christians and the churches at large have lost their way. That fact is especially clear among the many evangelical Christians who blindly follow Trump and who treat him as some kind of holy man. They don't understand the first thing about Christianity - and they certainly don't live according to its teachings. As such, we shouldn't expect to see anything coming out of them - they are dead and useless. At least in America, Christianity is in serious need of a revival movement to return to what it means to be a Christian.

And what do you think being a Christian means? Christianity has many doctrines, dogmas, sects and cults, some are moderate, whilst others are extreme and abusive.

 

[Kenny]

It really does seem to me that this ought to be a pretty straightforward theological question, yet I've never seen any answer that even begins to make sense.

That is a curious statement IMV. You don't believe that there is a God. For you it doesn't make sense. Does that mean there is no sense in believing in God? Doesn't it make sense to those who do believe in God?

So, one could easily come to the conclusion that the answers you seek still make sense for many but, for you, they will never make sense

We all know well how often it is claimed that God can miraculously heal the sick, and that asking people to pray for an ailing child can make a big difference in the outcome. And there's no end of claims, both quiet and on loud, public stages demanding tons of money for more cars for the preachers, that this works. That God will interfere, if supplication is sufficient, or if the preacher is really amazingly "holy," and make all the bad go away.

But then, doesn't this beg a really important question? Given how seldom (given how often sick kids die, and cures don't come no matter how much prayer is offered), why is this so capricious? Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?

I don't think it has anything to do with being "capriciousness". I don't think God is picky at all. Certainly, since we aren't God, we will never fully understand all the "why's" because we don't have all the information.

I don't read where Jesus ever said "I don't want to heal you". Anyone who came to him for healing was healed so I see no capriciousness. Were there caveats? Yes.l Sometimes we can see why, sometimes we can't.

I believe that it ultimately has to do with the "human factor". in the Christian perspective, (as there are other religions with different perspectives), God desires that all should be saved yet, in Christian understanding, we come to the conclusion that not all are saved. Is it because God is capricious? No, it is the "human factor".

Like the man who Jesus laid hands on the blind man and then the blind man said "I see men as trees". Why? We don't know. What we do know is that he laid hands again and he was made whole.

In one case Jesus said after healing someone, "Go and sin no more!" as if to say that what they were doing made them sick. It would be the "human factor".

Why do we wash hands? To prevent sickness. Is it God's fault if we wipe our bottoms, not wash our hands, and then stick our fingers in our eyes? (Not that it is a sin but rather an example of a "human factor").

Or, if extreme worry is causing ulcers and the person doesn't want to stop worrying... would it be God's fault that they aren't healed? Or would it be the "human factor?"

Finally,

If you are treating two children for the same disease and one get healed and one dies... is it capriciousness on your part? Or just a "human factor"?

 

[iam1me]

And what do you think being a Christian means? Christianity has many doctrines, dogmas, sects and cults, some are moderate, whilst others are extreme and abusive.

The definition of Christian is one who follows Christ - his teachings and example. He summed up the whole of the Law as love - to love God and one's fellow man is to fulfill God's Law. (Eternal life, in turn, is a reward for persevering to do good - and not based upon acceptance of any doctrine whatsoever.)

The vast majority of the theological conflicts that divide Christian sects really have nothing to do with this most fundamental teaching of Christianity. In fact, their fervor over theological disputes that often have little value in the long run has often led them to forget this most fundamental teaching and to commit horrible deeds.

With most of today's churches, their problem isn't that they are going around doing evil - but that they aren't doing anything good. They aren't going out into their local communities to give back and help those in need. In fact, a lot of these churches are more Republican than Christian - espousing the wonders of Capitalism, Trump, and the evils of socialism and the very concept of giving back and helping those in need.

Personally, I've stopped going to church because I see little point. They don't serve a purpose except to drag Christianity through the mud. My primary criteria for joining a church today would be that they have an active ministry in the local community where they are actively seeking to give back and help those in need.

 

[1213]

...Why is God so very picky about who He'll help and who He won't?...

Maybe it depends on what god you mean, the Trinity, or Bible God, or someone else. If they pray for wrong god, Maybe the right God is not interested to answer.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Maybe it depends on what god you mean, the Trinity, or Bible God, or someone else. If they pray for wrong god, Maybe the right God is not interested to answer.

For a multitude of reasons, your answer really disappoints me.

 

[JJ50]

Maybe it depends on what god you mean, the Trinity, or Bible God, or someone else. If they pray for wrong god, Maybe the right God is not interested to answer.

And which is the right god, they are all human creations, imo?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Praying for an ill person is a good deed in itself.

I disagree strongly. It's a negative act. It's a way for the person to satisfy their desire to do something to help while doing nothing to help.

Robert Green Ingersoll would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you." I think he had the right idea.

 

[JJ50]

I disagree strongly. It's a negative act. It's a way for the person to satisfy their desire to do something to help while doing nothing to help.

Robert Green Ingersoll would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you." I think he had the right idea.

 

[Wasp]

I disagree strongly. It's a negative act. It's a way for the person to satisfy their desire to do something to help while doing nothing to help.

Robert Green Ingersoll would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you." I think he had the right idea.

You don't need to pray all day so you can do other things as well....