Intercessory Prayer and Omniscience

[Chattan]

I have a question and this seems to be the best place to ask it. This is for all who believe in intercessory prayer but anyone can answer of course.

My question is about intercessory prayer and God. This question is based on the concept of God being both Omnipotent (all-powerful) and Omniscient (all-knowing). If God is not omniscient then the question is irrelevant and if God is not omnipotent then God's limited nature is the answer. However, it seems that many see God as both and that is the basis for this question.

My question is this, if God is both omnipotent and omniscient, then why do we need to prayer to God for intervention and intercession? An all-powerful and all-knowing God should already know what is going on and should already be involved. So, why prayer for intercession at all when God already knows what is going on and what will happen?

Certainly, there are many reasons to pray. To thank God and show gratitude. To ask God for strength in hard times. However, why do we prayer for intervention when God already knows and is (or should be) involved?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joe

 

[dan]

My question is this, if God is both omnipotent and omniscient, then why do we need to prayer to God for intervention and intercession? An all-powerful and all-knowing God should already know what is going on and should already be involved. So, why prayer for intercession at all when God already knows what is going on and what will happen?

You may be coming at this question from the wrong angle. If you're wondering why Christ (being God) would pray to himself to ask for help then I think you may have answered your own question.

God seeks to bless us, and His blessing us is often contingent upon a display on our part of faith. Whether this be through action, prayer or otherwise, we are told Ask and ye shall receive. Our prayer in no way helps Him to understand. On the contrary, they help us to draw nearer to His will and secure for us the blessings that have been predicated on our asking.

 

[royol]

Joe
The angle you are coming from is the right angle but unfortunately it is the
wrong angle for some people, if God knows everything then God needs no input from us,
If an earthquake hits the first thing people do is fall to their knees and pray to God, Why?

 

[Chattan]

Dan,

Thanks for the response.

I am refering to humans with problems asking God to intervene and help. If God is all-knowing then God knows what is going on. He knows that you are having some type of problem so why do we then have to ask for help? God should already be helping. God should be in the process of making us understand without having to ask for help in the first place if God is indeed Omniscient.

Joe

 

[SoyLeche]

God should already be helping. God should be in the process of making us understand without having to ask for help in the first place if God is indeed Omniscient.

Joe

Why is that?

 

[royol]

Religion or God does not work like that, you are trying to use logic where none exists.

 

[Chattan]

Royol stated:

Religion or God does not work like that, you are trying to use logic where none exists.

I agree but I still find it an interesting question.

SoyLeche:

Why is that?

Simple. Because this all-powerful and all-knowing God is supposed to care about us and be involved in our lives. However, why not intervene when the problem happens instead of waiting til spoken to. God knows but does nothing until we ask? Why should we have to pray for the help to come?

Joe

 

[SoyLeche]

Royol stated:



I agree but I still find it an interesting question.

SoyLeche:



Simple. Because this all-powerful and all-knowing God is supposed to care about us and be involved in our lives. However, why not intervene when the problem happens instead of waiting til spoken to. God knows but does nothing until we ask? Why should we have to pray for the help to come?

Joe

If someday my son is struggling with his homework, and I know he is having a bad time but wait until he asks for my help before offering it, would I be a bad person?

 

[dan]

Because this all-powerful and all-knowing God is supposed to care about us and be involved in our lives.

My first concern is the obvious doubt that you have a handbook on the rules of omnipotence. What an omniscient and omnipotent being should do or is supposed to be doing well transcends our capacity or authority to understand. We don't write the rules of omnipotence. One cannot dictate to a superior what its responsibilities are.

My second concern is the fact that He is involved intimately in our lives. Just because bad things happen doesn't mean that God doesn't care. Any parent in the world will tell you that a child will never learn to walk unless it tries on its own. It has to fall in order to learn to walk.

 

[Chattan]

SoyLeche asked:

If someday my son is struggling with his homework, and I know he is having a bad time but wait until he asks for my help before offering it, would I be a bad person?

Fair enough but here is a question for you? Someday your son is diagnosed with cancer and is suffering horribly from it and you know it but do nothing until he asks for help, does that make you a bad person?

Dan stated:

My first concern is the obvious doubt that you have a handbook on the rules of omnipotence. What an omniscient and omnipotent being should do or is supposed to be doing well transcends our capacity or authority to understand. We don't write the rules of omnipotence. One cannot dictate to a superior what its responsibilities are.

I feel that this is the logical fallacy of the Special Plead. Simply stating that we cannot understand God because he is above us is not an answer.

Dan also stated:

My second concern is the fact that He is involved intimately in our lives. Just because bad things happen doesn't mean that God doesn't care. Any parent in the world will tell you that a child will never learn to walk unless it tries on its own. It has to fall in order to learn to walk.

Fair enough but refer to the above question given to SoyLeche. Imagine the people of New Orleans that suffered through all there loses that included life and then had to prayer for help.

Let me ask this question, could it be that God is already involved and the prayer is a way for us to communicate with God?

Joe

 

[dan]

I feel that this is the logical fallacy of the Special Plead. Simply stating that we cannot understand God because he is above us is not an answer.

I didn't state that we couldn't understand Him. The purpose of life is to get to know Him. What I said is that we have neither the right nor the capacity to tell Him how to do His job.

Fair enough but refer to the above question given to SoyLeche. Imagine the people of New Orleans that suffered through all there loses that included life and then had to prayer for help.

It doesn't make Him happy to let us suffer, but He has promised not to interfere with our learning experience.

Let me ask this question, could it be that God is already involved and the prayer is a way for us to communicate with God?

Of course.

 

[Karl R]

if God is both omnipotent and omniscient, then why do we need to prayer to God for intervention and intercession?

A wiccan friend of mine practices magick. Recently she mentioned that sometimes when she starts the preparations, she realizes she really didn't want what she thought she wanted. The process of preparation helped her realize that.

Prayer doesn't help god understand what we want. Prayer helps us understand what we want from god.

What is important enough to me that I will bring it to god? If I want something, but feel uncomfortable asking god for it (because it seems too self-centered or self-destructive), perhaps it is something I shouldn't want for myself.

An all-powerful and all-knowing God should already know what is going on and should already be involved.

I don't believe god micromanages the universe. God knows what's going on, but god may be staying uninvolved (until we invite god's interference).

So, why prayer for intercession at all when God already knows what is going on and what will happen?

This is a common fallacy. God knows what will happen, but that doesn't mean the future is immutable.

If I flip the light switch down, my apartment will get darker. If I don't, it will stay light. Both of these possibilities are within my knowledge (and ability to predict), but they are also within my ability to change.

if God knows everything then God needs no input from us,

My mother knows that my father loves her. Why does my father waste time telling her that he loves her?

She'd get rather upset if he didn't.

I don't pray so I can educate god.

this all-powerful and all-knowing God is supposed to care about us and be involved in our lives. However, why not intervene when the problem happens instead of waiting til spoken to. God knows but does nothing until we ask? Why should we have to pray for the help to come?

Have you ever had a meddling friend that continuously offered help and advice when you didn't want it?

I have several relatives that fit that description. I don't want their help, even when I need their help.

I like god. God doesn't butt into my life until I ask her to. Very considerate.

Someday your son is diagnosed with cancer and is suffering horribly from it and you know it but do nothing until he asks for help, does that make you a bad person?

No. Do you think it does?

Simply stating that we cannot understand God because he is above us is not an answer.

There is a bug flying around my apartment. The bug does not understand me because I am superior to the bug. The bug might not like that, but it still happens to be true.

And no matter how much the bug complains that it doesn't understand me, it still won't understand me.

Another way of looking at it:
I don't always understand my parents. I don't always understand my siblings. I don't always understand my friends. I don't always understand my boss. I don't always understand my coworkers. I don't always understand god.

That might not be much of an answer, but it's frequently the best answer I get.

Imagine the people of New Orleans that suffered through all there loses that included life and then had to prayer for help.

God doesn't stop us from hurting each other.

We've poluted this planet. We knew it was damaging the planet, but we did it anyway. That polution has warmed the planet, and now the Gulf of Mexico is warmer. Storms hit that warm water and explode into massive hurricanes.

Bush doesn't want to sign the Kyoto accord because preventing polution will hurt the economy ... so we use our greed to justify making the planet less habitable for everyone else.

Since we have free will, god won't stop us. We have to make that choice for ourselves.

But it's a lot more convenient to get angry at god.

 

[Chattan]

Thanks for the replys all. Since I don't see God in anthropomorphic terms I have no problems with my question as it is irrelevant. Because of this I am unfamiliar with some of the beliefs out there and I wanted to some input from those that do believe in intercessory prayer so that I could learn.

Joe

 

[royol]

Some of the beliefs out there you just would not believe, I try to foget them rather than think about them, you wonder how people can let themselves get in such a mess.

 

[dan]

Some of the beliefs out there you just would not believe, I try to foget them rather than think about them, you wonder how people can let themselves get in such a mess.

We all feel the exact same way about you.

 

[michel]

I have a question and this seems to be the best place to ask it. This is for all who believe in intercessory prayer but anyone can answer of course.

My question is about intercessory prayer and God. This question is based on the concept of God being both Omnipotent (all-powerful) and Omniscient (all-knowing). If God is not omniscient then the question is irrelevant and if God is not omnipotent then God's limited nature is the answer. However, it seems that many see God as both and that is the basis for this question.

My question is this, if God is both omnipotent and omniscient, then why do we need to prayer to God for intervention and intercession? An all-powerful and all-knowing God should already know what is going on and should already be involved. So, why prayer for intercession at all when God already knows what is going on and what will happen?

Certainly, there are many reasons to pray. To thank God and show gratitude. To ask God for strength in hard times. However, why do we prayer for intervention when God already knows and is (or should be) involved?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joe

This is a difficult question for me. The reason it is difficult is that I personally think that God has nothing to do with our day to day lives.

That we should ask God for a sick person to get better, may (for all we know) be going against God's 'plan' (if there is one). I am not actually convinced that there needs to be one.

We are here on Earth to learn, by making choices, and acting upon them. This learning process is one in which we have the opportunity to do what we will. If we do anything wrong, be sure that 'the wrong' will need to be repented for at some stage.

All natural events, are, to my mind, just that - events- which put us in the position of needing to decide on how we will cope.

I sometime feel guilty when praying for God's help in respect of (say) suffering someone is going through, simply because I wonder if it is wrong of me to ask God to 'interfere' - does that make sense?

 

[royol]

This is a difficult question for me. The reason it is difficult is that I personally think that God has nothing to do with our day to day lives.

That we should ask God for a sick person to get better, may (for all we know) be going against God's 'plan' (if there is one). I am not actually convinced that there needs to be one.

We are here on Earth to learn, by making choices, and acting upon them. This learning process is one in which we have the opportunity to do what we will. If we do anything wrong, be sure that 'the wrong' will need to be repented for at some stage.

All natural events, are, to my mind, just that - events- which put us in the position of needing to decide on how we will cope.

I sometime feel guilty when praying for God's help in respect of (say) suffering someone is going through, simply because I wonder if it is wrong of me to ask God to 'interfere' - does that make sense?

It makes no sense at all, who in your opinion is responsible for the suffering in the first place?
If you do not believe God is in charge what has God got to do with anything, if God just sits and watches our lives roll past what is it all about? why pray at all, God is not going to do anything anyway.

Michel, the word confusion springs to mind.