1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Intelligent Design and People

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by rojse, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,047
    Ratings:
    +734
    Well, after I finish my peas, I'll just nip down the oesophagus shop and buy me another one! Do they have somewhere there that can fit it for me, or shall I attempt the DIY route? :rolleyes:
     
  2. Don Penguinoini

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,247
    Ratings:
    +729
    Religion:
    Hindu Atheist
    I think the human body is amazing... Everything is so perfect. Our earth is PERFECT, see how in nature nothing survives on its own, it uses another life to live. Everything works in sync with each other, the system of interdependance is so perfect, yet so fragile. I coud not have asked for a better planet. We have long arms and legs for reach, fingers to grab, hand that can slide and grip, a body of internal organs that function perfectly, but yet again very fragile. I believe that humans are not the most perfect beings, there are so many other animals which show som amazing qualities.

    By no means did our god do a sloppy job... Or science for that matter.
     
  3. Captain Civic

    Captain Civic version 2.0

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Ratings:
    +30
    Would perfect knowledge precede perfect choices?
     
  4. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,063
    Ratings:
    +700
    Sorry to drop the logic-bomb on you, but if in Evolutionary theory there is no Design, how can design flaws be used as evidence of Evolutionary fact? :sarcastic
     
  5. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    7,991
    Ratings:
    +706
    I won't dignify this with a response.

    Perhaps in a few decades, we might be able to alter the DNA of a person to remove these defects.

    However, won't people then say that we are tampering with God's intentions for us and so forth?

    However, that is a topic for another thread, though.

    It is enough to say that we cannot alter whatever evolution or God has given us to work with at this moment..
     
  6. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    7,991
    Ratings:
    +706
    I used "design flaws" from what had been posted as another person in my argument. The original poster used the phrase "design flaws", so I used that in my reply.

    If we want to be more pedantic without imparting any more information, how about "things in a person that, if they were designed for us by a supernatural being that most people would designate the name God to, were not done with the due care and attention that we would expect from an omnipotent being."

    What I mean when I say "design flaws" is simply things in people, or other animals, that can be useless, superfluous, done poorly in a way that can cause pain or discomfort, and so forth.

    "Design flaws" is a much simpler way to express it.
     
  7. Captain Civic

    Captain Civic version 2.0

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Ratings:
    +30
    That made me think of Gattaca. :cover:
     
  8. yossarian22

    yossarian22 Resident Schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,899
    Ratings:
    +192
    What do you mean by perfect knowledge?
    They would not have perfect knowledge so much as perfect storage and application of knowledge.
     
  9. Captain Civic

    Captain Civic version 2.0

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Ratings:
    +30
    I mean could you make a perfect choice if all the information was not available to you?
     
  10. yossarian22

    yossarian22 Resident Schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,899
    Ratings:
    +192
    That depends on what you mean by perfect.
    You could make a perfect choice given the information you have.
     
  11. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,891
    Ratings:
    +379
    If our earth is so perfect, how come we have had several mass extinctions, and are headed towards another as we post?
     
  12. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,312
    Ratings:
    +6,433
    Religion:
    Mystics
    How could the choice not be perfect, if it's a choice?
     
  13. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    22,493
    Ratings:
    +10,079
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    The design flaws are evidence of the principle of no design. A designer would not include flaws.
     
  14. sandandfoam

    sandandfoam Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,231
    Ratings:
    +1,713
    One mans flaw might be anothers perfection.
    Maybe it's just a question of perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Francine

    Francine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,343
    Ratings:
    +213
    Flawlessness is itself a flaw. Stamp collectors place great value on stamps which contain printing errors. A snowflake can only form around a piece of dust which introduces a flaw in the crystal growth, and eventually leads to that snowflake's uniqueness. The sound of fingers rubbing over guitar strings during a performance are a flaw (they aren't called out in the tabs) but they lend a humanity to the music that playing a MIDI file through a synthesizer cannot come close to duplicating. The "flawless" drum machines of the 1980s and 90s made the pop music of those decades sound robotic and cheesy compared to the pop music of the 60s and 70s.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,514
    Ratings:
    +1,447
    That stuff is still flawed. It might be more enjoyable to some or even most people, but it's still flawed. A lot of times humans like things that have flaws more because they can identify more with them, or in the case of stamps and such, they are more rare, and so only a few can have them.

    Of course, flaws are subjective. As was said before, what is a flaw to me may not be a flaw to you. But you can't be flawLESS if you have a flaw. The definition of flawless is "without flaws".
     
  17. yossarian22

    yossarian22 Resident Schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,899
    Ratings:
    +192
    From what perspective is the appendix perfection?
    It is, in essence, a giant poison filled balloon waiting to painfully explode.
     
  18. yossarian22

    yossarian22 Resident Schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,899
    Ratings:
    +192
    Those are all relative, purely subjective things. We can't objectify them no matter how much we like or try to. Design can be objectified rather easily.
     
  19. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,891
    Ratings:
    +379
    If one looks at the universe, and at the evolution of life, it looks pretty darn random to me.

    We were non preordained.
     
  20. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    22,493
    Ratings:
    +10,079
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Perhaps the word "flaw" is throwing people off.
    Let's say normal but dysfunctional features are evidence of no design.
     
Loading...