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Featured Inherently wrong actions?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Acim, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. Acim

    Acim Revelation all the time

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    Are there any actions that you think are inherently wrong?

    I do not.

    Not sure what there could be to debate, but I do think it profound to fully realize no action is inherently wrong. I also find it easy to take that for granted once you realize this truth.

    I think certain things are wrong in a relative sense. Like I don't wish to be killed, so I do think killing is wrong in a relative way. But I don't see it as inherently wrong because a) everyone (or everything) in physical existence will die/be killed and b) because of my theological understandings. The latter covers a whole lot of sub-points that perhaps amount to profound points that are possibly seen as ridiculous from a non-theological perspective - such as Perfect Love knows there is no death, thus killing is not truly possible.

    But I start this thread cause I am interested in what actions, if any, people think are inherently wrong. And to help stipulate that a bit, I do mean wrong regardless of geographic location or local laws.

    I came pretty close to adding to the inquiry by asking if you (general you) think there are any wrong thoughts? I actually think that is more direct inquiry, but not sure if that just clouds things. But really looking for any thoughts, words or actions that people think are inherently wrong and why they reach that conclusion.

    Kind of hoping non-theist types respond cause I anticipate certain theist types to say certain things are inherently wrong because their doctrine says so.
     
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  2. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    You anticipated or you intended it? You did after all post this in the Religious Debates section rather than the General Debate.
     
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  3. Acim

    Acim Revelation all the time

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    You're welcome to post what you feel is inherently wrong. If all you have is doctrine that can't respond for itself, then I hope you are prepared to defend that beyond "that's what the doctrine says." I see that as "wrong relative to the doctrine" and not inherently wrong. Also feel like I can handle myself in the theological debate that might ensue, and likely won't lead to many profound considerations, but up to you as to how you wish to participate.
     
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  4. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Intended it is.
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Yes, assuming that you accept the environment that makes the action possible as part of the action itself.

    Rape, for instance, is by definiton wrong.

    So is nurturing cruelty in a more general sense.

    So is Intentionally misleading others out of personal convenience.
     
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  6. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I suppose I'm not sure why the finger is pointed at theism. Doctrine can be present or absent irrespective of whether or not a religion is theistic or non-theistic (or whether or not we are talking about a religion at all). Furthermore, while I get that the classical monotheisms have well-trained most Westerners to conflate theism and morality (as well as religion and morality), these are independent considerations.

    Near as I can tell, the only justification for the notion of inherent wrongness is doctrine or teaching of some flavor or another. All matters of ethics are grounded in philosophy, and the positions one takes on those issues is... well... whatever that human wants to rationalize, really. I reject the notion of inherent wrongness (or rightness) because the doctrines and teachings I hold to do not support such a notion. My brain cannot handle black-and-white thinking that accompanies ideas of inherent rightness/wrongness. It thinks too much for that, which believe me, is not necessarily a good thing.
     
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  7. Nous

    Nous Well-Known Member
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    Killing with malice aforethought (i.e., murder). Rape. Stealing your neighbor's Mercedes just because you want it. Arson. Etc., etc. See state and federal penal codes for more examples.
     
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  8. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    What does that even mean?
    Why?
    Why?
    Why?
     
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  9. Sees

    Sees Dragonslayer

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    I use right and wrong in the basic sense, as it is tied to my traditions...it doesn't get too complicated unless it is a rather complex situation/circumstances involved. Helpful, wholesome, healthy, etc. = right.... opposites of such = wrong. In the majority of cases, common sense and a wee bit of wisdom can point out what naturally falls into which category or where it would sit on a sliding scale.
     
  10. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That circunstances matter, but some are built into the act itself.

    For instance, if a rape is consensual, then it is not rape.

    Because of the consequences.
     
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  11. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    The problem with the phrase 'inherently wrong' is it is incoherent to begin with, so given that there is no real purpose in using it. At least in this context.

    Wrong is only definable when used to describe something concrete, like mathematics. 2+2=3 is 'inherently wrong'. When 'wrong' is used in the context of a value judgement, for the 'wrongness' to be 'inherent' would require a defined and measurable objective criteria of what 'right' means, that is impossible by definition.
     
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  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I'll pick murder for $500 Alex.


    .
     
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  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I don't think so. Moral parameters, ill understood as they often are, still refer to pretty objective biological, neurological and psychological realities.
     
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  14. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    Oh boy. So something is only wrong if there is a threat of consequences? Even as moral shenanigans go, that seems a pretty sketchy slippery slope.

    So if I get away with a rape it's not actually wrong?(by your standard)

    That aside, these are still only your personal valuations. Nothing inherent, or even wrong in any sense outside of these valuations.
     
  15. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    Ok? You just added nothing here.
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    "Threat"? Nope. Try likelihood.

    Morality is a duty arisen from our ability of both influencing the environment and predicting the likely consequences of same.

    It is not a matter of whether someone might punish us, but rather of whether the action itself is detrimental.

    No, that is not at all what I said.

    I beg to differ.
     
  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Nothing that you acknowledge, I suppose.
     
  18. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    A duty to whom exactly?

    Detrimental too is a subjective value judgement. Things that are detrimental to some can be and often are beneficial to others.

    Generalizations are fine and all, just not very useful. Context is always important.
     
  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    To ourselves. Who else?

    That is actually a fairly rare situation. When it happens, of course it will be necessary to weight the pros and cons and make a judgement call. Considering, among other things, how well the people involved may shrugh off the damage.

    But in practice, people are very often socially connected and mutually dependent to the point that such dilemmas are rare.

    Context is indeed important. But it is also an inherent part of many actions.
     
  20. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Anything that harms others is inherently wrong.
     
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