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information on panentheism

ayani

ayani

member
on Panentheism. :D

from Wikipedia (where else?)

Panentheism is the theological position that God is immanent within the universe, but also trancends it. It is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe. In panentheism, God is viewed as creator and/or animating force behind the universe, and the source of universal morality.

The German philosopher Karl Christian Friedrich Krause (1781–1832) seeking to reconcile monotheism and pantheism, coined the term panentheism (all in God) in 1828. This conception of God influenced New England transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson. The term was popularized by Charles Hartshorne in his development of process theology and has also been adopted by proponents of various New Thought beliefs.

Beginning in the 1940s, Hartshorne examined numerous conceptions of God. He reviewed and discarded pantheism, deism, and pandeism in favor of panentheism, finding that "panentheistic doctrine contains all of deism and pandeism except their arbitrary negations".

The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches have a doctrine called panentheism to describe the relationship between the Uncreated (God, who is omnipotent, eternal, and constant) and His creation that bears surface similarities with the panentheism described above but maintains a critical distinction.

This Orthodox Christian panentheism is distinct from a "fundamentalist" panentheism in that it maintains an ontological gulf or distance between the created and the Uncreated. Creation is not "part of" God, and the Godhead is still distinct from creation; however, God is "within" all creation, thus the Orthodox parsing of the word is "pan-entheism" (God indwells in all things) and not "panen-theism" (All things are part of God but God is more than the sum of all things).
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HopefulNikki

HopefulNikki

Active Member
gracie said:
on Panentheism. :D ...Beginning in the 1940s, Hartshorne examined numerous conceptions of God. He reviewed and discarded pantheism, deism, and pandeism in favor of panentheism, finding that "panentheistic doctrine contains all of deism and pandeism except their arbitrary negations".
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What are Deism's "arbitrary negations," out of curiosity?
 
Troublemane

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
I arrived at my belief through long period of study and reflection. I applied a logical argument and came up with the following:
Postulate#1: Anything that exists must dwell within the bounds of existence (including however existence we are unaware of due to ignorance, limited senses, etc.), and must therefor be subject to natures laws.

Postulate#2:Anything outside of existence by definition does not exist.

Theory:---If God cannot lie within the bounds of existence (for then it/he/she would be subject to natures laws), nor outside of existence (for then it/he/she would be nonexistent), it follows logically that God must be existence itself. (QED)

If God is 1:1 congruent with all existence (including aspects of reality we have no knowledge of) then God is omnipotent, omniscient,etc-- all knowing (for God is one with all things), all powerful (for the laws of nature are merely extensions of Gods being as well), and transcendent (Gods being extends beyond our capacity to comprehend).

The consequences of this view are that if all existence is God, then everyone in existence is part of God, so what need is there of salvation? Salvation cannot refer to the conferring of a state from one person onto another, for all people are equally "of God", no one any more sacred than any other at any time (this may be hard to accept for some fundamentalists). The mechanism of salvation can only be through the simple awareness that other people, in fact all of existence is part of the divine unity,and we begin to treat others accordingly.
:)
 
K

Koth

King of the hill
Troublemane said:
The mechanism of salvation can only be through the simple awareness that other people, in fact all of existence is part of the divine unity,and we begin to treat others accordingly.
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This negates the concept of atonement, which implies a broken unity and a mechanism to restore that unity.
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Koth said:
This negates the concept of atonement, which implies a broken unity and a mechanism to restore that unity.
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The unity is not broken; but people think it is. Therefore, there is still need for a change in humanity. But it is not "salvation" in the most common sense. No one needs to be salvaged from the junk heap of sin. We just need to see who we truly are.
 
R

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
Troublemane said:
I arrived at my belief through long period of study and reflection. I applied a logical argument and came up with the following:
Postulate#1: Anything that exists must dwell within the bounds of existence (including however existence we are unaware of due to ignorance, limited senses, etc.), and must therefor be subject to natures laws.

Postulate#2:Anything outside of existence by definition does not exist.

Theory:---If God cannot lie within the bounds of existence (for then it/he/she would be subject to natures laws), nor outside of existence (for then it/he/she would be nonexistent), it follows logically that God must be existence itself. (QED)

If God is 1:1 congruent with all existence (including aspects of reality we have no knowledge of) then God is omnipotent, omniscient,etc-- all knowing (for God is one with all things), all powerful (for the laws of nature are merely extensions of Gods being as well), and transcendent (Gods being extends beyond our capacity to comprehend).

The consequences of this view are that if all existence is God, then everyone in existence is part of God, so what need is there of salvation? Salvation cannot refer to the conferring of a state from one person onto another, for all people are equally "of God", no one any more sacred than any other at any time (this may be hard to accept for some fundamentalists). The mechanism of salvation can only be through the simple awareness that other people, in fact all of existence is part of the divine unity,and we begin to treat others accordingly.
:)
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Spooky. Spooky not in the sense the your ideas are spooky, but spooky in the sense that I'm not alone.

Queston: Are you familiar with The Urantia Book?
 
Kungfuzed

Kungfuzed

Student Nurse
Troublemane said:
I arrived at my belief through long period of study and reflection. I applied a logical argument and came up with the following:
Postulate#1: Anything that exists must dwell within the bounds of existence (including however existence we are unaware of due to ignorance, limited senses, etc.), and must therefor be subject to natures laws.

Postulate#2:Anything outside of existence by definition does not exist.

Theory:---If God cannot lie within the bounds of existence (for then it/he/she would be subject to natures laws), nor outside of existence (for then it/he/she would be nonexistent), it follows logically that God must be existence itself. (QED)

If God is 1:1 congruent with all existence (including aspects of reality we have no knowledge of) then God is omnipotent, omniscient,etc-- all knowing (for God is one with all things), all powerful (for the laws of nature are merely extensions of Gods being as well), and transcendent (Gods being extends beyond our capacity to comprehend).

The consequences of this view are that if all existence is God, then everyone in existence is part of God, so what need is there of salvation? Salvation cannot refer to the conferring of a state from one person onto another, for all people are equally "of God", no one any more sacred than any other at any time (this may be hard to accept for some fundamentalists). The mechanism of salvation can only be through the simple awareness that other people, in fact all of existence is part of the divine unity,and we begin to treat others accordingly.
:)
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Makes sense, but why call existence God? Is existence a person or consiousness?
 
R

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
Because it is also part and parcel of you.
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Infinity does not exclude diversity; in other words, oneness is not sameness. The diverse parts are not the whole even if they include it. If I say, "I can prove it," and you say, "Show me your proof," I would say, "See?"
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Rolling_Stone said:
Infinity does not exclude diversity; in other words, oneness is not sameness. The diverse parts are not the whole even if they include it. If I say, "I can prove it," and you say, "Show me your proof," I would say, "See?"
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"Existence" to us is a part of us. Do you exist? Yes. See?

Each of the diverse parts is whole unto "infinity".
 
R

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
Each of the diverse parts is whole unto "infinity".
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Between me and thee there is chaos, else there would be no me and thee. Infinity transcends the chaos that divides us; we do not.

I'm a realist. I tried at one time to be a monist in the strict sense of the word, but I found myself losing my sense of common sense. I found I could acknowledge the Infinite within without having to deny my finitude. The surest and quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live faithfully every moment as a tadpole.
 
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