infant baptism

[robocop (actually)]

Hello I'm still a member.

I got hold of two arguments for not baptizing someone at 8 days but 8 years, one I thought of and one from my brother in law.

Some people say little kids are devilish because of their behavior. I do not think they are devilish. I think that there is a difference between being trained and being righteous. They are righteous but not trained.

The other argument was that why should you presume that your decision to get your baby baptized will decide it's fate? Isn't it arrogant that the decisions of another person will decide the baby's salvation?

Thank you and I hope I'm doing good as a member on RF.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Mormons want you to wait until you are 8. I think that is a rational number.

 

[Salvador]

Hello I'm still a member.

I got hold of two arguments for not baptizing someone at 8 days but 8 years, one I thought of and one from my brother in law.

Some people say little kids are devilish because of their behavior. I do not think they are devilish. I think that there is a difference between being trained and being righteous. They are righteous but not trained.

The other argument was that why should you presume that your decision to get your baby baptized will decide it's fate? Isn't it arrogant that the decisions of another person will decide the baby's salvation?

Thank you and I hope I'm doing good as a member on RF.

Can an 8-year-old willingly decide on his/her own accord, without feeling pressured by his her/her parents, to become baptized? Does an 8-year-old realize the symbolic significance of being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Can an 8-year-old willingly decide on his/her own accord, without feeling pressured by his her/her parents, to become baptized?

If the parents respect them, yes. A testimony is not so much a mental feat but plowing a field, and so obedience is a good thing.

Does an 8-year-old realize the symbolic significance of being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Yes, they understand the commitment. Yes, though when I was baptized at 8 I didn't think about whether I'd be allowed to not do it.

I was baptized at 8 and rebaptized at 39. At neither time did I know everything, but I was committed to the whole thing. It is a start of a journey. You are not supposed to get baptized until you have repented, meaning that you are keeping the commitment already. You don't get baptized if you don't believe and trust in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ loved little children.

It is natural that someone born into a Latter-day Saint household getting baptized at 8 has different information then a Chinese person who knows a little bit about it. That is what Temple Ordinances are for. We baptize for everyone, so that if when they are dead if they would have accepted the gospel had they had correct information they can vicariously get baptized too.

Fear of persecution and rejection of the world is what causes rejection of the gospel. I can say that here; this is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints DIR.

 

[Salvador]

If the parents respect them, yes. A testimony is not so much a mental feat but plowing a field, and so obedience is a good thing.

Yes, they understand the commitment. Yes, though when I was baptized at 8 I didn't think about whether I'd be allowed to not do it.

I was baptized at 8 and rebaptized at 39. At neither time did I know everything, but I was committed to the whole thing. It is a start of a journey. You are not supposed to get baptized until you have repented, meaning that you are keeping the commitment already. You don't get baptized if you don't believe and trust in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ loved little children.

It is natural that someone born into a Latter-day Saint household getting baptized at 8 has different information then a Chinese person who knows a little bit about it. That is what Temple Ordinances are for. We baptize for everyone, so that if when they are dead if they would have accepted the gospel had they had correct information they can vicariously get baptized too.

Fear of persecution and rejection of the world is what causes rejection of the gospel. I can say that here; this is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints DIR.

I was baptized as an infant, in a Presbyterian denominational Church; I've never been re-baptized; however, I'm willing to accept the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints baptism by proxy of me after I've died.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Sure... if you don't believe in it now, but you would have believed in it in this life had it been properly introduced to you, that would be just fine. And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the best afterlife of any religion whatever, which I'm sure you'll be happy to hear!

 

[whirlingmerc]

Hello I'm still a member.

I got hold of two arguments for not baptizing someone at 8 days but 8 years, one I thought of and one from my brother in law.

Some people say little kids are devilish because of their behavior. I do not think they are devilish. I think that there is a difference between being trained and being righteous. They are righteous but not trained.

The other argument was that why should you presume that your decision to get your baby baptized will decide it's fate? Isn't it arrogant that the decisions of another person will decide the baby's salvation?

Thank you and I hope I'm doing good as a member on RF.

I think people are born with fallen natures, so presbyterians would baptize as a covenant dedication in hope the children repent and believe in Jesus and be saved by faith. The Baptism in this case is a covenant dedication where the church is committed to the child to help raise it in a godly way in hopes that a child eventually becomes a Christian

Baptists hold a view that the category of people who are baptized are those saved by faith and Christian believers. A baptism in this case is an outward expression of an inward reality.

I think people in good conscience might see it either way.

 

[pearl]

The other argument was that why should you presume that your decision to get your baby baptized will decide it's fate? Isn't it arrogant that the decisions of another person will decide the baby's salvation?

Only God decides one's fate judged on who one has become.

Does an 8-year-old realize the symbolic significance of being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

I doubt it. Neither would they have any developed sense of commitment to entering a covenant with God through Christ.

I was baptized at 8 and rebaptized at 39.

So there was no significance to your 'first' baptism?
It is impossible to make a real commitment without developing the knowledge of what one is committing to. In the RC church one may be baptized as a child, initiated into the community, but this is followed in stages, Eucharist, and finally, Confirmation, usually 10th grade, the three known as sacraments of initiation.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Please note that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has ordinances for adults, similar to Catholicism.

Only God decides one's fate judged on who one has become.

Exactly. So why should someone else baptize the child when the child can't understand it? But at a point of life when the child can understand it, baptism is a symbolic step that they have repented and want to follow Jesus Christ.

I doubt it. Neither would they have any developed sense of commitment to entering a covenant with God through Christ.

While there are many things an 8-yr old cannot understand, I think Christianity is one that they can.

So there was no significance to your 'first' baptism?
It is impossible to make a real commitment without developing the knowledge of what one is committing to. In the RC church one may be baptized as a child, initiated into the community, but this is followed in stages, Eucharist, and finally, Confirmation, usually 10th grade, the three known as sacraments of initiation.

Getting saved is a life-long process. Getting baptized at 8, trying to leave several times, finally leaving and becoming Raelian at 29, and rejoining at 39 were all significant to my ultimate life.

The Restored Church of Jesus Christ can grant permissions to different Temple Ordinances at different ages, some only as an adult.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I think people in good conscience might see it either way.

I am inclined to agree.

 

[Watchmen]

There is a fundamental difference in how those who practice infant baptism and those who do not understand the purpose of baptism. Mormons, for example, view it as the washing away of sins, and more importantly as an outward manifestation of a covenant being made with God. In that scenario it makes sense that the one being baptized have some ability to make decisions.

For Catholics, baptism is the washing away of sinful acts, but more importantly the removal of original sin. Baptism also bestows the grace of God within the child to assist him or her in life. That’s why parents can make the decision to baptize their child. After all, if the infant had a tumor, I’m sure no one would question the parents having it removed. So it is with baptism — the removal of original sin.

 

[EverChanging]

Hello I'm still a member.

I got hold of two arguments for not baptizing someone at 8 days but 8 years, one I thought of and one from my brother in law.

Some people say little kids are devilish because of their behavior. I do not think they are devilish. I think that there is a difference between being trained and being righteous. They are righteous but not trained.

The other argument was that why should you presume that your decision to get your baby baptized will decide it's fate? Isn't it arrogant that the decisions of another person will decide the baby's salvation?

Thank you and I hope I'm doing good as a member on RF.

In the Episcopal Church we not only baptize infants, but commune them, too, at the discretion of the parent.

People do not become Christians apart from community. That begins early on in the family. For us that process officially begins with baptism, though we acknowledge an adult may have saving faith and grace prior to baptism as well.

Since for us baptism replaces circumcision, and circumcision was performed on infants, we baptize infants. We commune them, too because one need not intellectually understand the sacrament to receive grace. It is a gift, not an intellectual process, though it may involve that, too.

Those who practice adult baptism often from the earliest ages teach children about Jesus, sing songs about him, and in all manner of ways past on their beliefs. You most certainly are making decisions about what your child believes. We simply acknowledge that process by infant baptism and involve the community.

If I were raising a child they would certainly be baptized and partake in communion. But I would be sure to expose her to other religions, philosophies, and religious practices. At an appropriate age she could choose to remain Episcopalian or choose another path. That is certainly further than many advocates of adult baptism would go even though they mistakenly believe they are not choosing their child's religion.

 

[robocop (actually)]

In the Episcopal Church we not only baptize infants, but commune them, too, at the discretion of the parent.

People do not become Christians apart from community. That begins early on in the family. For us that process officially begins with baptism, though we acknowledge an adult may have saving faith and grace prior to baptism as well.

Since for us baptism replaces circumcision, and circumcision was performed on infants, we baptize infants. We commune them, too because one need not intellectually understand the sacrament to receive grace. It is a gift, not an intellectual process, though it may involve that, too.

Those who practice adult baptism often from the earliest ages teach children about Jesus, sing songs about him, and in all manner of ways past on their beliefs. You most certainly are making decisions about what your child believes. We simply acknowledge that process by infant baptism and involve the community.

If I were raising a child they would certainly be baptized and partake in communion. But I would be sure to expose her to other religions, philosophies, and religious practices. At an appropriate age she could choose to remain Episcopalian or choose another path. That is certainly further than many advocates of adult baptism would go even though they mistakenly believe they are not choosing their child's religion.

Thanks. As per teaching them other paths, I recommend that they'll want to go to the LDS Temple when they grow up at 10, Judaism at 12, Christianity in general at 14, Islam at 16, and Eastern religions if the parents know them. Philosophies and science too.

 

[EverChanging]

Thanks. As per teaching them other paths, I recommend that they'll want to go to the LDS Temple when they grow up at 10, Judaism at 12, Christianity in general at 14, Islam at 16, and Eastern religions if the parents know them. Philosophies and science too.

I am unsure if you are being sarcastic, but I would plan in addition to weekly eucharist for the children to be exposed to other religious services if possible including non-Christian ones. However, my take on Christianity is different than most.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I am unsure if you are being sarcastic, but I would plan in addition to weekly eucharist for the children to be exposed to other religious services if possible including non-Christian ones. However, my take on Christianity is different than most.

I was being sincere. I have always believed that a person can only know how much something is true as much as how they know the opposing idea is false.

 

[EverChanging]

I was being sincere. I have always believed that a person can only know how much something is true as much as how they know the opposing idea is false.

My approach would be to educate and let them come to their own conclusion rather than to indoctrinate.

 

[whirlingmerc]

There is a fundamental difference in how those who practice infant baptism and those who do not understand the purpose of baptism. Mormons, for example, view it as the washing away of sins, and more importantly as an outward manifestation of a covenant being made with God. In that scenario it makes sense that the one being baptized have some ability to make decisions.

For Catholics, baptism is the washing away of sinful acts, but more importantly the removal of original sin. Baptism also bestows the grace of God within the child to assist him or her in life. That’s why parents can make the decision to baptize their child. After all, if the infant had a tumor, I’m sure no one would question the parents having it removed. So it is with baptism — the removal of original sin.

Cornelias was saved really just from hearing Peter preach before baptism in
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message..."

In the New Testament, many people are baptized before, during and after receiving the Holy Spirit, so it appears their sins have already been washed away. The thief on the cross never baptized for one.

 

[Watchmen]

I was being sincere. I have always believed that a person can only know how much something is true as much as how they know the opposing idea is false.

If I understand this correctly, are you suggesting children should be taken to other churches as well as the Mormon church so the children can know that Mormonism is true and others are false?

 

[EverChanging]

Cornelias was saved really just from hearing Peter preach before baptism in
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message..."

In the New Testament, many people are baptized before, during and after receiving the Holy Spirit, so it appears their sins have already been washed away. The thief on the cross never baptized for one.

There are more functions to baptism than just washing away sin original or actual. In fact the Orthodox do not believe in original sin and still baptize infants. They chrismate and commune them, too.

 

[robocop (actually)]

My approach would be to educate and let them come to their own conclusion rather than to indoctrinate.

Well, I agree and disagree. I agree that they should at the very least know that they can do it later or not at all and my parents taught me that. I agree that God gave us brains to use them rigorously.

However, I disagree on one thing. I think the doctrine of Christ is something important to instill in a child at a young age to get them on the right track.