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Incest.

Discussion in 'Sexuality' started by Pardus, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Against the Bible ay?

    "And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."
    Genesis 20:11-12
     
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  2. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    AH HA! (already knew that one...)
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    What about the evidence I posted?
     
  4. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    Some of it I accept, some of it I find highly dodgy. Regardless, none of it does anything to destroy the notion of informed (no children), consenting (no rape), safe (condoms) sex being a totally amoral thing and none of it manages to show that it is not possible to have an incestuous relationships that conforms to these 3 requirements.

    Therefore, I find it more useful to say that I am against a sex when any of these 3 things are not sorted out as opposed to saying that I am against sex (in this case incestuous) except for when these 3 things are accounted for. It means that I can equate incestuous sex with being as normal and amoral as any other type of acceptable sex and it also means that the issue of "When is sex morally wrong?" does not become further complicated beyond the 3 requirements already outlined.

    If all incestuous sex is totally mutually exclusive with at least one of the given requirements then I would say that all incestuous sex is immoral and not before :).
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    "Dodgy"? I can try for some more; first though, why do you consider it dodgy ?
     
  6. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    I'll go through it.

    First paragraph: The author has brought gender into it... why? First thing that hits me and I will look to the rest of the article to have it answered.
    Second paragraph: Definition of incest is not factually correct. Bias shown against incest via the use of "inappropriate touching".
    Third paragraph: Fair enough I will go with that assumption. I certainly agree that incest is very widespread however from my study, albeit rather scattered, of incestuous material on the internet, I would say that the indication is that both are equally common.
    Fourth paragraph: Oh dear. This is where he lets the hat out of the bag. Previously, when he was talking about Father-son intercourse etc. He actually meant when the son was still a child.

    So to recap so far. This author defines incest as a relationship that must be kept secret from other family members and takes place when one or both members are in their childhood. I have big problems with this.

    Skip to paragraph 10: Ahhh so this is why gender is an issue. Because girls are essentially not as powerful as boys and so would feel pressured into the sex. An unfair assumption and one that does not affect the authors definition of sibling incest which he said included homosexual incest as well.
    paragraph 11: I don't know where he got that assumption from. For starters, why the gender bias and then why is it relevant?
    paragraph 12: Well sure he is totally right here. I'm pretty sure if I had a homosexual relationship in say Iran, I would suffer from the same problems. Doesn't mean that homosexuality is wrong, however. It doesn't even mean that I shouldn't be able to agree with my partner to have such a relationship given such troubles.

    Then the author goes on to talk about rape. His argument is basically saying that rape, being rape, is wrong and since we know that incest, under my special definition, must be rape, incest must be wrong also.

    Actually that was a lot more dodgy than when I first read it through lol :).
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You disagree that rape is wrong?
     
  8. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    I disagree that incest constitutes rape. I feel that if I rape my daughter, the fact that it is incest has no bearing on the fact that it is rape and therefore no bearing on the fact that it is wrong.
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You disagree that incest constitutes rape; I wonder why ? I can understand that in the case of Consensual adult incest, but between father and daughter ? Mother and son ?

    Consenseual sex is one where full consent (with the full knowledge of what that entails) is obtained before the sexual act.

    You still consider incest not rape in the case of parent vs child ?
     
  10. Pardus

    Pardus Proud to be a Sinner.

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    michel, do you believe that all parents die before their children reach 18?
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Obviously not; what relevence has that to the discussion in point ?
     
  12. Pardus

    Pardus Proud to be a Sinner.

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    Just clarifying.
     
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Clarifying what ?
     
  14. Pardus

    Pardus Proud to be a Sinner.

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    Just clarifying.
     
  15. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Why is it that sex with a stepmother (or stepfather with stepdaughters for that matter) is wrong? Genetically it doesn't carry the genetic possible problems.
     
  16. Solon

    Solon Active Member

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    Genetic abnormalities if pregnancy occurs. For an interesting slant on how this works, study the Ptolemaic dynasty of Greeks who ruled Egypt following Alexander's death.

    S
     
  17. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    It is 'wrong' because it is still within the family boundaries; there is actually no practical reason for it being wrong, but culture has a fixed and unyielding view on incest.

    What is strange though, and surely must sometimes happen, is incest between half brothers and sisters who don't even know they are related.....it must happen.
     
  18. ch'ang

    ch'ang artist in training

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    This is just another one of those topics that is wrong because culture says so, other than that fact that the kids would turn out a little "over done"
     
  19. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Nothing. I have no problems with incest provided it functions like any other healthy relationship (no power issues, etc.)
     
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  20. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    As always it is a pleasure to see a view that rests upon solid, logical foundations. Frubals to you!
     
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