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Featured In your understanding. How old is human race? and when was the first being alive on earth?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Conscious thoughts, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    I have come to understand from the cultivation of spiritual paths for more than 20 years and everything has cycles, universe, planets, human beings, animals, plants everything is reincarnated and everything has to do with karma. So then you can ask how do universe accumulates karma? Over billions of years, the human race creates many wrongdoings and immorality, this gets spread out into the universe by our thoughts, and in my understanding, we humans fill the universe with our own karma.
    For us human beings the reincarnation cycle come because we have to learn to find our true existence (nonphysical), we are spiritual beings as I said in my last reply. and until we can realize this fully, and let go of every human attachments we have to this physical realm, we will be staying in the cycle of rebirths. Only when realization happens and we understand that we have to do righteous actions, words and thoughts, then we can undo our karmic deeds and become virtues and "clean" of our wrongdoings.
     
  2. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    Your last sentence reveals all.

    We only really care about the ‘human race’ in so far as it supports our particular genetic and cultural lineage. It’s all BS once you actually transcend that way of thinking.

    Even if we can identify with a first ‘human’, it wasn’t the first being capable of self-organization and agency. Our values should be determined by our highest awareness... so keep reaching.
     
  3. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    All human beings are important to save, so we all can go back to our true existence, and physical ream is not our true existence.
    My OP actually show that we as a species have been here for too long, we would be better of as fully spiritual beings, and a goal would then be to enlighten to the truth
     
  4. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we’ve all been here for too long and that we all have spiritual potential.

    You can’t handle the truth.
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    May it be that we see the truth differently?
     
  6. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    I see truth as a useful belief that works within a relatively coherent belief system. Truth has cash-value and so we invest in it. Now... the truth that doesn’t serve us. The truth that doesn’t cohere with our other preconceived beliefs and comfortable illusions...

    That’s the truth that I’m interested in. The kind that makes me uncomfortable. The kind that makes me question my dogmatic reality. The kind that make me question my fixed identity.

    Anything less is last weeks news.
     
  7. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    Since i have no interest in money or worldly belongings the only truth i seek is the spiritual teaching of Truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance, when we die from this human realm we can not bring with us any of the physical object or money that we accumulated over the time we live. But we can bring with us the virtue we have accumulated from understanding truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance. If we can not reach the realization of enlightenment, at least we take with us the energy of Gong ( for those who have cultivated gong energy that is)
     
  8. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    I agree with truthfulness and compassion, but who the hell tricked you out of your material earnings?

    Are they living better than you are right now? I cannot tolerate such deception.

    How realistic is the goal of enlightenment?
     
  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    Nobody has tricked me of anything :) I still earn money but they do not mean anything to me, so I give them to my Fiancè and she can use it as she like.
     
  10. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member

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    Agreed....seeing that they're all dead. :eek:
     
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  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    150-200k years old.

    The oldest traces of life we have evidence of, is about 3.8 billion years old if I remember correctly.

    How the heck would we know anything about other places in the universe concerning topics for which we would have to closely inspect those places to be able to say anything sensible about them?


    Why did you ask those 2 questions?
     
  12. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    I was curious to know what others thought about it. My questions are not important
     
  13. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    People often don't seem to realize that the genealogy based dating from after Adam and Even entered mortal time (years) is only the time from after the Garden of Eden (or without ever really thinking about it some in the past reasonably but incorrectly assumed a time of 0 (zero) for the Garden, or some random brief time, for which....there is no basis actually...).

    We know (and agree already perhaps) that we cannot of course assign any known mortal years time duration at all to the Eternal -- as if God was 570,230 year old (!!???); a very wrong idea of limiting Him -- and neither for the Tree of Life from Genesis chapter 2 and Revelations chapter 22 -- that which prevents mortal aging!

    Simply, we are not told the amount of time that passed on the outside Earth while Adam dwelled there with The Eternal One Himself and the Tree of Life in the timeless bliss, the paradise, of the Garden. (see Genesis chapter 2).

    Why aren't we told?

    Because we do not need to know. It's comparatively unimportant.

    Faith is not to be about some particular viewpoint of the age of the Earth. Instead, Faith is to believe in God, the Eternal One, the Creator of all that is, and His Son, Christ Jesus, for one's salvation. (the Apostle's Creed is a good summary of what is real faith)
     
  14. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Well, in my mind it is probably the height of human hubris to pretend to speak for God. Maybe it is man's greatest possible sin. Nobody knows the mind of God. God's mind is beyond anyone's comprehension. To truly know the mind of God means you ARE God. I doubt the goat herders who scribbled down the words in the Bible were actually God. I think they are or were no better at interpreting divine wisdom than you or I would be.

    You seem to be implying I am questioning "His morality.". My idea of God is not as limited as yours. In my mind, God is perfect, whole, and complete not having any desires, needs, or wants. Since desire is the source of all evil, God is absolute goodness by His own perfection. The idea of questioning "His morality" is not something I would ever consider possible. We on the other hand are full of imperfections.

    God did not create the Universe out of some need, desire, or design. God designing the Universe would imply God has limitations because designs have goals. And goals are defined by our needs. God created the Universe out of an overflowing or abundance of energy. Because out Universe has a limited amount of energy we are NOT perfect like God. The Universe, nature, and human character is full of imperfections. It is these imperfections that are the causes of that is evil in the World.

    I've learned not to concentrate too hard on judging the imperfections of God's creation. Otherwise, by judging too much my narrow mindedness prevents me from experiencing all of God's blessings flowing all around us. I think some people are so busy judging imperfections in themselves and in other people that are incapable of appreciating any of God's blessings.

    RE: "He had the right to tell me"

    Are you really sure it is God who is talking. No mortal man has "the right" to tell you how to think. Absolute authority comes from within. Absolute authority comes from God from within. It is clear the Bible got the morality of slavery wrong:

    “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

    If the Bible is so wrong on slavery, then it makes me think it was written by men and not directly by God. I just don't think Peter 2:18 is the word of God. Nobody should be a slave to someone else. It's just wrong and is the antithesis of the Golden Rule. These words are self-serving propaganda for the people in power who were distributing the Bibles. It is really a shame if you idolize the words of the Bible to the point where they have meaning for you. If you can't see slavery as immoral then we will just have to disagree.

    When I was in college, I took human sexuality class. They had a homosexual come in and talk to the class. He said he knew from a very early age he was wired differently. He said when he looked at Playboy magazine the pictures of the naked woman did nothing for him. He claimed he was born this way. So I concluded since in the presence of any naked woman I always got an erection I must NOT be an homosexual. I think this is a good test. Getting erections in any other case are ambiguous if you accept what this guy was saying.

    So you could claim since God created homosexuals as homosexuals then how is it a sin as long as it is between two consenting adults? Isn't funny how the people who are the most outspoken against homosexuality or are obsessed with it turn out to be one in the end! No one if forcing you to have gay sex. In my life, I just leave the homos alone and they don't bother me. What they do behind close doors is not my business.
     
    #94 dfnj, Jan 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  15. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    If I understood you correctly, I will attempt to restate what you gave, in that you think that as students of scripture, we cannot know for how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden before being expelled and could therefore be 'ages' (thousands of years, millions of years,etc) of time?

    If that is your premise, and I understood you correctly, that would be an incorrect position to hold.

    Notice scripture please:

    Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
    Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
    Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.​

    Genesis 5:1, Adam was created in the 6th Day, see Genesis 1 & 2.

    Genesis 5:2, agrees with Genesis 1:27c., and further agrees with Genesis 2:7-25.

    Genesis 5:3 relates that Adam, after 130 years of life, had a child by the name of "Seth". "Seth" came after "Cain and Abel", as per Genesis 3:20, 4:1,2, 25,26.

    Genesis 5:4 relates that Adam lived 800 years longer after "Seth" was born. Thus the total life span of Adam being alive is 930 years old, as per Genesis 5:5.

    Genesis 5:5 seals the range to 930 years for the entire lifespan of Adam, from the moment of coming alive in creation to ceasing to live, as it says, quite clearly, "all the days that Adam lived", which would include the "days" (Genesis 1:14) in the Garden before sin, up to the very point of Genesis 2:7 in his coming alive as a living soul/person/creature/being.

    Therefore, we know, from the text, and without guessing at all, that Adam was in that Garden of Eden sometime before his 130th year. We know that Adam was out of the Garden of Eden in at least his 130th year, seeing that "in the process of time" (Genesis 4:3) took place with Cain and Abel to be both born and to grow up enough to be a "tiller of the ground" (farmer) and also to raise livestock (sheep), and for sheep to be born and fruit to grow out of the ground; Genesis 4:2.

    Yet, even though we do not know the exact number of days, weeks, months or years Adam was in the Garden of Eden, we do know it could not have been 130 years. For "all that days that Adam lived" were 930, which includes the time (whatever it was) in the Garden of Eden, and before Cain and Abel. Nowhere does any text say that all the days that Adam lived outside of the Garden. That would be eisegesis and false apriori nowhere represented by any text of scripture.
     
  16. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Most people are bright enough not to give a **** what the Bible says about reality.
     
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  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    SOME of us realize adam and eve are just a story.

    But some of us dont seem to need to know things. :D
     
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  18. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    More important that the things below is that we just read with true listening fully through full books, without trying to overlay doctrines on top (which isn't listening, but talking over the words).

    We want to forget everything else and just hear.

    (late edit: just to help frame the below post, I've read through 100% of all the 66 books, more than once each, and am a believer, meaning in Christ risen, and to come again, and in Life everlasting for those who believe in him; this may help forestall (I hope!) some wrong assumptions/guesses people can project onto short posts like these; too much time is wasted with wrong guessing in most discussions; I happen to have the opinion that Adam and Eve literally existed (of course they exist in a far more important sense in any case!) also, but that detail isn't of much importance (ask me why if you like); instead of first importance is the meanings in the account.)

    -------------

    Consider just to help, this usage for a moment, so we can get clear on what we are discussing:

    "Back in the day, I was a good baseball batter."

    Meaning in this instance for example some period of time of probably a decade or 2 duration (or more), long ago. This common way of using the word "day" depends on what general context suggests, see.

    Now look at this Genesis verse:

    verse 2:4 --
    "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

    (clearly for both young and old earth creationists, this instance of "day" isn't a 24 hour one)


    in the day
    בְּי֗וֹם (bə·yō·wm)
    Preposition-b | Noun - masculine singular construct
    Strong's Hebrew 3117: A day
    Genesis 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

    More translations:
    New International Version
    This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

    New Living Translation
    This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

    English Standard Version
    These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

    Berean Study Bible
    This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

    New American Standard Bible
    This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

    King James Bible
    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

    American Standard Version
    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

    Brenton Septuagint Translation
    This is the book of the generation of heaven and earth, when they were made, in the day in which the Lord God made the heaven and the earth,

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

    Young's Literal Translation
    These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;
     
    #98 halbhh, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  19. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    No matter how you try to twist the meaning of words into what you want they still add up to nonsense. You don't have any evidence that Adam and Eve as stated existed outside of your desire. It does not match world archeology, does not match the evidence out of fossil evidence in Africa, does not account for the diversity of humans, and most of all must depend on creative word interpretation to fit what the believer wants.
     
  20. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    And the evidence to support any of this outside of the interpretation of the bible is what? Oh that right nonexistent. Myth should be left as myth to teach values not reality!
     
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